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inside outer limits is a regular feature

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[Music]

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welcome to another edition of inside out

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Limits radio show with my co-host Philip

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mantel they are good evenin Christopher

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nice to speak to you mate you as well

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mate you as well glad to we're see that

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you're a you're getting a little bit

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better now when things are slowly moving

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forward for you which is brilliant news

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and I don't know about you but I am

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looking forward to waiting at the

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weekend well yeah you know I think it'll

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be a fun to attend what make a lot of

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old old faces and a lot of new ones so

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I'm looking forward to it well that's

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the thing that I enjoy about conferences

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more than anything is meeting up with

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all faces as you call them and you know

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and making new friends and just talking

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with people you know sometimes it's hard

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to work with individuals in the

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concourse or a lot more interesting than

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the talks that have bearson's doing on

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the stage so today we're interviewing a

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young man by the name of Paul ask Paul

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asked off there you go so brilliant

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that's a great to talk with Paul Paul

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he's a longtime interesting in the UFO

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field and he's actually an author it was

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just released his first book I believe

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Paul yeah that's correct

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I've been involved there I say on the

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fringes of the UFO community fringe

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might be a wrong word to use in this

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connotation that it carries but yeah

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I've been interested I've been a member

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of bill for was an investigator for a

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while and sort of was in a bead what can

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I say I won't say fun but an avid

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researcher of the subject from would you

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believe being 11 years old that's right

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I understand that you had a sighting

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round about the age of 11 don't you tell

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us about that yeah I was my brother and

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I we lived in on the edge of a village

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in the countryside from our front gates

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looking out the front of our home which

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is fields and fields and fields for

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miles so we had really good views

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looking

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and our last job of the day as young

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children I was 11 my brother was Magne

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was to take our dogs for a walk and the

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next-door neighbor's dogs for a walk who

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was quite severely disabled you only had

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one wrong the next War veteran so my

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father ruled with a rod of iron as they

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did in those days and yes and we went

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took the dogs came back we used to say

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goodnight repentance and go to bed

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my father was sat skåne pondered in the

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bench under the front window

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in the garden looking at his roses and

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we saw well everything away went out to

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say goodnight

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and as we saying goodnight it was sort

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of late evening not quite dark the first

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of the sort of good stars and the

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brighter constellations were visible and

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my father being interested in that sort

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of thing was saying what's that what's

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that you know which ways north they

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always used to ask that and to our to

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the north from almost a direct line in

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front of us was a big bank of cloud and

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then looking off was the sky was cloudy

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but to the south the sky was completely

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clear and as we're all looking at the

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stars that were just coming out think on

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I'm talking 1968 so it was long before a

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lot of light pollution everywhere well

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out in the countryside as well these two

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UFOs from one to a better term came out

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of the cloud quite rapidly and then just

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stopped dead brilliant pearly white

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color you can actually see the light

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from them shining on the cloud

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reflection off the cloud and the

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disorder came out the cloud stopped dead

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there was no deceleration they

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immediately just stopped dead and then

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up to maybe two seconds they sped off

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away from us again when it's a rapid

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rate of knots no acceleration

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they were either still or moving very

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quickly and they move straight out due

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east down almost parallel with this Bank

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of cloud and it did get close to the

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cloud you could see this light from them

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shining on the cloud and reflecting off

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it there also was they moved you could

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see a very tiny sort of teardrop shaped

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a

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were in this is ins over Selby

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I shouted to my wife they were moving

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very slowly again completely silent no

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flashing lights no anything

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just two white lights in the sky my wife

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came out and looked at them and then I

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Bri shouted the two boys

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the two boys came out to us so they were

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poor was watching it and literally came

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over

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maybe eighty degrees something like that

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literally as we watched it suddenly they

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accelerated away well accelerators the

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one word they just were absolutely

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zooming off into the distance

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and they moved in a westerly direction

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and they just zoomed out was height and

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again in July the 23rd 1984 same evening

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I was at work that evening I used to

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work in a factory on the Holly Park

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Trading Estate in Mali it's just just

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literally along the road from the Asda

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supermarket in Mali so I finished work

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about five to ten in the evening I lived

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at my parents so I mean tingly at that

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point you come out of the trade in this

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state you literally turn right you know

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onto the main road and it's one rolled

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all the way home and as soon as I got

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onto the main road it was a lovely

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summer's evening it wasn't dark I could

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see this light in the distance and I

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knew it shouldn't be there you know I

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knew the Stars and the planets and the

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aircraft I thought well that's a bit I

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don't know what that is so I took off as

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fast as my little car would go I used

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that was my first car at my Volkswagen

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Beetle and you didn't call it a comet

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Wilma Wilma Oh Mike a star in the

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morning so if anybody knows the area

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there's a flyover that goes over the

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motorway Belted over there and as you

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come down the other side they used to be

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a lay-by for the buses to pull in so I

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pulled in there I'm about halfway home

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now it's just before the main tinguely

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roundabout

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which is now much much bigger than it

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used to be then and I could see it was

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now too light so I line them up with a

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lamppost and that they weren't moving so

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I jumped back in the car

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belt it off to back onto tingling now

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what near where I lived there's another

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boss layer by and you can see all of

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Leeds City of Leeds in the valley right

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out to cook courage on the hillside

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opposite in almost to the airport until

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you sort of just to your right a little

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bit was was there suburb of Middleton on

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the hill and these two lights as Paul

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described them were like pearly white

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the riot there was parallel with each

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other the right-hand one was a little

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bit larger than the other you didn't

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have too cocky head but Chris I could

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watch these through my windscreen you

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know and they were just hung over

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Middleton and totally as far as I was

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concerned not moving there was no noise

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and then bump blink gone you know just

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like that yeah this is them wasn't that

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nice it wasn't there a series yeah I was

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part of the Yorkshire UFL Society at

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that point being with him just over four

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years so I shut off round home grab made

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me Cameron binoculars I actually phoned

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Matt blitz all who was set up the group

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with Graham and I shut off back out to

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the same vantage point and stood there

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for about an hour never saw anything

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else

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but the phone had started to ring and

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when I went back to work the next day

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and some of my colleagues that I work

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with who went on similar routes to me

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some even on the same route driving home

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that night said Phil did you see them

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why it's last night yeah and you know we

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received certainly dozens of reports

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Chris probably even inches three figures

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so mark Birdsall and I took it upon

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ourselves to investigate these sightings

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and we got reports from all over what

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what happened as far as we could

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detail is whatever it was was around for

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about a couple of hours he seemed to

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come across from from your neck of the

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woods from the east coast

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beyond us out path leads out to where

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Paul was living York

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I'll be area then seemed to turn around

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for want of a better word and head back

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towards the coast I mean even there was

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even police officers on duty in Leeds

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that saw it that night

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and did you not see again the same night

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Paul yeah now this was the latter part

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of my story it was I've taken the dog

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for quite a long walk having more of my

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eyes on the sky then I was on what the

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dog was doing didn't see anything at all

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and then literally as I get back to the

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house and I'm closing the gate behind

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the dog and letting him off the lead

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they appeared above me and by appeared I

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don't mean they just they weren't there

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then they were there it was just me that

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noticed exactly the same formation as

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Phil said they were just just like two

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bright lights slightly apart parallel

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with each other and they were moving

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back in the opposite direction by this

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time so to me they were actually moving

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back out towards the East Coast

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yeah well that that would confirm what

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our findings suggested and we found

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these out long before I met Paul I met

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Paul while early 1990s Paul somewhere

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around there and just wore them during

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one of our chats you know Paul says oh I

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saw something I mean you know I thought

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Hellfire it's the same thing I'm sorry

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you know shouldn't have surprised me

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really because we knew a lot of people

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had seen it and and we knew there was a

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lot more that hadn't reported it but the

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only difference is when Paul's

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observation it's actually moving what I

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think I saw was actually stationary and

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and of course what Paul it's kind of

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confirming what what we concluded that

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it was it did a sort of turn around not

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not fastest this razorba

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an hour and a half two hour period it

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was heading back from whence it had come

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why it was we've no idea I mean we

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literally Mark Bert salon myself

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contacted everybody from the Coast Guard

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out on the East Coast you know

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inland you know to the the airports

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there used to be a heliport in Leeds at

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that point I think it's long since gone

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and it wasn't a helicopter anyway

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because believe it or not down in the

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dip where

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I saw this but much much closer the work

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there's a there was a chapel built his

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own company and he he got banned from

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driving so he just passed you just

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caught a helicopter I was found it

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amazing that you could be banned from

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driving I think he'd had one too many

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but he could still fly a helicopter so

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he used to fly a helicopter over us so

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you know we were on the flight path to

272
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:56,210
Leeds Bradford Airport quite you know I

273
00:14:59,410 --> 00:14:57,530
knew what the aircraft looked like it

274
00:15:01,830 --> 00:14:59,420
was it was nothing like any of these and

275
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:01,840
it was much lower you know and of course

276
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:05,210
behind where I used to live where I when

277
00:15:09,010 --> 00:15:06,770
I used to start early mornings we used

278
00:15:10,930 --> 00:15:09,020
to see the planet Venus rise so it was

279
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,940
in the totally opposite direction for

280
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:12,560
any of that the wrong time of year

281
00:15:17,620 --> 00:15:14,870
anyway and like I said it wasn't quite

282
00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:17,630
dark it was it was a lovely summer's

283
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:21,380
evening and you know you could see these

284
00:15:26,950 --> 00:15:25,040
things as clear as day you know and I

285
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:26,960
have no idea mark and I tried everything

286
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:28,490
Graham came to a different conclusion

287
00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:31,310
Graham Bert saw basically what Graham

288
00:15:36,670 --> 00:15:34,100
did he got out on an old map and he

289
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:36,680
pinpointed where these sightings have

290
00:15:41,770 --> 00:15:38,240
been made you know we got the

291
00:15:43,890 --> 00:15:41,780
information in now in 1984 we were still

292
00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:43,900
in the middle of the the miners strike

293
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:46,900
and Graham thought it was a helicopter

294
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:49,370
spying on the miners because he put

295
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,920
these pins in and out map and on some of

296
00:15:57,130 --> 00:15:53,360
them there was core mines

297
00:15:58,990 --> 00:15:57,140
what what Graham felt he realized it was

298
00:16:02,500 --> 00:15:59,000
an old map and those coal mines had long

299
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:02,510
since gone the didn't exist anymore like

300
00:16:05,950 --> 00:16:04,310
at Middleton where I saw this thing

301
00:16:08,020 --> 00:16:05,960
there was no coal mine and there hadn't

302
00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:08,030
been one as long as I could remember it

303
00:16:13,060 --> 00:16:10,990
was long since gone and only that yeah

304
00:16:16,390 --> 00:16:13,070
you know the way the miners strike

305
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:16,400
worked the coal mine has never made any

306
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:17,930
secret of where they're gonna be

307
00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:19,730
picketing so there was no and I

308
00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:21,620
certainly weren't there at night because

309
00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:23,660
you know they wanted the publicity and

310
00:16:28,810 --> 00:16:26,990
the television cameras and so you know

311
00:16:29,410 --> 00:16:28,820
Graham's theory kind of fell by the

312
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:29,420
wayside

313
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:32,240
plus it would have been in those days it

314
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:33,470
would have been the police helicopter

315
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:38,690
and and it was a scarce resource so to

316
00:16:41,450 --> 00:16:39,690
speak

317
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:41,460
you know you're not like you have today

318
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:44,730
and but what we know we never found an

319
00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:46,320
explanation for it I always thought

320
00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:48,150
there might have been one but I could

321
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:49,860
never quite figure it out it could never

322
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:52,560
find one and of course we speculated and

323
00:16:58,090 --> 00:16:55,440
I'm sure Paul Oliver he's comment on

324
00:17:00,890 --> 00:16:58,100
this that it might be in earth lights

325
00:17:02,420 --> 00:17:00,900
who knows that was just speculation but

326
00:17:04,340 --> 00:17:02,430
we never got to the bottom of it what

327
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:04,350
what would you say if someone suggested

328
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:05,850
it was it might have been earth lights

329
00:17:15,170 --> 00:17:10,380
Paul right I I agree it could appear as

330
00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:15,180
earth lights except it appeared to be

331
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,030
intelligent intelligently controlled now

332
00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:20,640
I'm saying that because he kept a dead

333
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:22,620
straight trajectory never moved

334
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:25,290
whatsoever it was I mean on either side

335
00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:26,970
or wobbled about or anything it was just

336
00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:29,160
dead straight like it was properly

337
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:31,740
driving on a course if you like and then

338
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:34,590
he absolutely zoomed off like what

339
00:17:39,530 --> 00:17:36,660
pretend like the Starship Enterprise you

340
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:39,540
wanker they were gone but it was still

341
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:41,910
on the same trajectory and then when it

342
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:44,850
came back he came back in the total

343
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:47,130
opposite direction and it went over my

344
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:47,880
head

345
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:50,010
until it disappeared out of sight now it

346
00:17:55,630 --> 00:17:51,480
didn't speed up but anything then it

347
00:17:59,740 --> 00:17:55,640
just kept a constant slow low speed

348
00:18:01,670 --> 00:17:59,750
where earth lights you could argue from

349
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:01,680
reports that we've had and people

350
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:04,370
investigated myself included that

351
00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:08,490
there's no definitive track or path that

352
00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:10,680
they follow that is in a straight line

353
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:12,630
they do move about they do you know

354
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:14,250
generally don't last for that long

355
00:18:19,580 --> 00:18:16,650
either yeah well that's what I would say

356
00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:19,590
I mean normally earth clients have been

357
00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:21,540
known to be around for you know minutes

358
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:23,880
shall we say but this whatever this was

359
00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:27,690
was around for a couple of hours maybe

360
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:29,790
even longer for all we know you know but

361
00:18:34,790 --> 00:18:32,280
certainly a couple of hours I would

362
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:34,800
agree that he it could appear to be

363
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:37,770
intelligent control if that's the case

364
00:18:42,530 --> 00:18:40,170
then I would say that there's a

365
00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:42,540
conventional explanation for it but I

366
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:45,780
just don't know what it is the reason I

367
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:47,910
say that Chris is because in my

368
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:53,460
experience as most people listening will

369
00:19:01,130 --> 00:18:53,640
be

370
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,140
will say too long I suppose usually when

371
00:19:07,580 --> 00:19:03,840
you get a sighting that seen over a

372
00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:07,590
large geographical area and it's seen by

373
00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:12,420
a lot of people it tends to hat have a

374
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:15,030
conventional explanation you know of one

375
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,049
form or another so yeah using that you

376
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,080
know I would suggest that there is

377
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:24,720
perhaps a conventional explanation to

378
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:26,760
what we saw that night but I couldn't

379
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:29,070
honestly tell you hand on how what what

380
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,740
it was or what it may be we we tried our

381
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:34,080
damndest to try and track something down

382
00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:36,450
that could account for it and we never

383
00:19:41,810 --> 00:19:40,350
managed to do that so I would leave me

384
00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:41,820
personally I would just leave it open to

385
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:44,600
to conclusion you know I have no idea

386
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,940
you see another unexplained yeah but

387
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:49,679
from my point of view can I just say

388
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,370
that had Philip seen what we saw in

389
00:19:58,130 --> 00:19:55,679
Selby where it was moving slowly and

390
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:58,140
then moved extremely quickly and then

391
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:00,179
was sold again in the opposite direction

392
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:03,299
like 180 degrees from the direction we

393
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:06,990
first saw then he may also have said it

394
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:08,730
did appear to be intelligently

395
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:12,720
controlled yeah I'm not denying that I'm

396
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:16,169
not I totally agree with what you're

397
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:17,990
saying Polly could appear to be

398
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:20,850
intelligently controlled and the way I

399
00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:23,100
think if that's the case then I think

400
00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:25,260
there may well be an explanation for it

401
00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:29,160
but okay we couldn't find one I mean you

402
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:31,590
I think because it was something that I

403
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:33,630
was personally involved in we tried that

404
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:37,110
a little bit harder and you know for

405
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:40,260
months on end mark and I would say well

406
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,059
we've got another site a name gonna and

407
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:44,400
it was all you know from July that's

408
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:46,230
what he said that because in those days

409
00:20:50,570 --> 00:20:48,059
of course there's no internet there's no

410
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:50,580
email people other active owners or

411
00:20:55,340 --> 00:20:53,370
right to was a and it never cease to

412
00:20:57,380 --> 00:20:55,350
amaze me Chris how they used to find us

413
00:20:59,030 --> 00:20:57,390
so we weren't registered anywhere you

414
00:21:04,730 --> 00:20:59,040
couldn't find it in the phone book you

415
00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:04,740
know but finders they did thankfully so

416
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:06,390
it would never surprise me again if we

417
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:07,610
weren't chatting with someone

418
00:21:13,060 --> 00:21:10,799
you know I saw that now as well you know

419
00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:13,070
it never surprised me at all

420
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:17,519
but there you go now what Wow I've just

421
00:21:21,379 --> 00:21:19,289
forever has two appalled with your

422
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:21,389
description of your sighting when you

423
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:23,820
were younger I think as you said in 1968

424
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:26,850
and you described it as teardrop shaped

425
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:31,289
now is that that is similar to um I

426
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:33,750
believe filled with what mr. Hixon and

427
00:21:41,499 --> 00:21:36,120
mr. Bachus or when you know when it came

428
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:41,509
down it was kind of tear dropped stroke

429
00:21:46,490 --> 00:21:44,370
rugby football they call it but you know

430
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,500
American football yeah which is not that

431
00:21:51,019 --> 00:21:48,960
yeah it's it's not the same sort of

432
00:21:54,399 --> 00:21:51,029
shape of a rugby bar would use here it's

433
00:21:56,899 --> 00:21:54,409
it's a bit fatter so shall we say and

434
00:22:00,200 --> 00:21:56,909
what amazed of it that it was pretty

435
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:00,210
long you know but it wasn't that high

436
00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:02,610
was you know they thought it was 80 to

437
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:05,220
100 feet long but only about eight or

438
00:22:10,759 --> 00:22:07,950
ten feet high and I kind of puzzled them

439
00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:10,769
and I mean everything about this puzzle

440
00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:12,870
done there was a bright light of course

441
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:16,409
and then this they call it a door for

442
00:22:20,019 --> 00:22:17,039
one of another

443
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:20,029
again another word its opening and this

444
00:22:25,159 --> 00:22:22,529
this whole light came from this opening

445
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:25,169
and when you hear the you know Calvin

446
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:27,570
under hypnosis talking about this

447
00:22:32,869 --> 00:22:30,690
they just this fact that this door

448
00:22:34,369 --> 00:22:32,879
because they used to seen a door open

449
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:34,379
conventionally you know you open the

450
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:35,970
door you swing it are you pull it back

451
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:40,440
this just a bearded and and these even

452
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:42,570
more intense light emanated out of this

453
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:45,450
thing and pretty much almost blinded

454
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:47,610
them and it took them a while for their

455
00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:50,970
eyes to get you know adjust but yes it

456
00:22:56,379 --> 00:22:53,940
was it was you know not not a perfect

457
00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:56,389
football in Calvin's but there's a

458
00:23:02,419 --> 00:22:58,470
couple of drawings of what it looked

459
00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:02,429
like and sort of a teardrop on on end if

460
00:23:08,779 --> 00:23:04,830
you like you know what I mean yeah yeah

461
00:23:10,369 --> 00:23:08,789
most peculiar yeah well so Paul you're

462
00:23:12,110 --> 00:23:10,379
going to say something Paul there goes

463
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:12,120
yeah well I was just going to say mine

464
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,250
appeared only as a teardrop shape when

465
00:23:18,109 --> 00:23:16,320
he moved that was the strange thing that

466
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:18,119
there one of the things that got my

467
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:20,340
attention was when they were still for

468
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:21,210
those few seconds

469
00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:23,310
they would have perfect sphere but when

470
00:23:30,370 --> 00:23:27,030
they moved the tail-end I'm saying that

471
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:30,380
because I'm assuming from from our

472
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:32,490
position that we were observing them

473
00:23:37,150 --> 00:23:34,710
from you could see there was a tail

474
00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:37,160
shape out the back and it was only small

475
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:39,150
but all the wise there was still that

476
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:40,380
perfect sphere

477
00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:43,080
it wasn't football as in American

478
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:46,760
football shaped yeah now Paul you

479
00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:49,650
briefly touched on your book which is

480
00:23:53,330 --> 00:23:51,150
called the real story

481
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:53,340
and a few seconds ago when we first

482
00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:56,640
introduced you and what you think what

483
00:24:00,890 --> 00:23:57,750
is your book about what you want to give

484
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:00,900
us an outline of what you can write in a

485
00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:03,050
nutshell what I've tried to do because

486
00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:04,980
nobody up the pole we don't want any

487
00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:08,540
notes at least so I was where write

488
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:10,830
experience different things paranormal

489
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:13,490
things as well as seeing these UFOs

490
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:16,050
occasionally on my own and occasionally

491
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:18,090
with groups of people which is much

492
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:20,940
better because then if you're all seeing

493
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:23,250
the same thing and gives you some

494
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:26,400
collaborative evidence though the what

495
00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:29,250
I've tried to do is over the years

496
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:31,790
reading going to the view product

497
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,440
conferences listening to people going to

498
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:36,360
other different conferences talking to

499
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:39,450
people like yourself and Philip you yeah

500
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:41,700
opinion does change over the years

501
00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:45,210
and initially when I saw the first two

502
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,670
UFOs my father and brother my father

503
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:49,200
were all just sat there in silence

504
00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:51,750
thinking oh my god and my father's first

505
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:54,120
words were well there's nothing that

506
00:25:01,160 --> 00:24:57,090
we've got that can do well and from that

507
00:25:03,290 --> 00:25:01,170
moment on for me it was like why are

508
00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:03,300
people report in this because this is so

509
00:25:09,410 --> 00:25:05,880
strange it was something else that I say

510
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:09,420
was if you get some day well Mike Galvin

511
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:11,610
will tell you if you get something that

512
00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:14,730
sees something that close is obvious

513
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:17,430
that it's alien it's obvious that it's

514
00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:22,050
not man-made and occasionally and has

515
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:24,270
happened to me on two occasions you get

516
00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:26,340
this sort of I'm not going to say a

517
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:29,550
telepathic link but that's what it feels

518
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:32,250
like and when we first saw these first

519
00:25:38,330 --> 00:25:34,860
two UFOs they came out and they stopped

520
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:38,340
dead then immediately I saw I felt a

521
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:41,490
connection was like oh we didn't mean to

522
00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:43,970
be seen we shouldn't be out of the cloud

523
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:48,059
now that was psychological I don't know

524
00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:50,370
but as an 11 year old psychology demon

525
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:53,100
come onto my radar okay but that was

526
00:25:59,630 --> 00:25:56,970
just an impression that I got and in

527
00:26:03,230 --> 00:25:59,640
another case as well that investigator

528
00:26:06,259 --> 00:26:03,240
later people I'm not going to say

529
00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:06,269
contactees but people that see UFOs at

530
00:26:11,169 --> 00:26:08,820
closer quarters I'm not seeing as close

531
00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:11,179
as Calvin did but at closer quarters

532
00:26:16,029 --> 00:26:14,220
sometimes also get that telepathic

533
00:26:19,129 --> 00:26:16,039
connection for want of a better phrase

534
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:19,139
now just to go on I've sort of

535
00:26:23,210 --> 00:26:21,210
documented different paranormal

536
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:23,220
experiences and you have those sightings

537
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:26,039
throughout the book to bring it from my

538
00:26:32,029 --> 00:26:28,350
first sighting up today took to the

539
00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:32,039
present and just literally a few weeks

540
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:34,830
ago my sister and two of her cousins

541
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:37,289
were on holiday which they do every year

542
00:26:43,850 --> 00:26:41,370
in North Wales and they and saw some

543
00:26:45,769 --> 00:26:43,860
lights in the sky and they'd been up for

544
00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:45,779
the day they'd come back they've been

545
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:48,750
playing cards so they've been up quite

546
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:51,870
late then so then the two did all gone

547
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:53,850
to bed and when they'd gone to bed they

548
00:26:58,220 --> 00:26:56,100
were in this country cottage and Madison

549
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:58,230
one of the cousins went to close the

550
00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:01,679
curtains she look out not in a northerly

551
00:27:06,919 --> 00:27:03,750
direction from where they were and there

552
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:06,929
were four lights in a row and again it's

553
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,480
a bit of a cliche creamy white in color

554
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:12,240
just like a car headlight perfectly

555
00:27:19,490 --> 00:27:15,960
round no apparent white services no

556
00:27:23,659 --> 00:27:19,500
wings or anything like that no red or

557
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:23,669
green strobes no sound perfectly silent

558
00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:28,260
just for lights now she said I looked at

559
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:30,990
it and she says immediately I got the

560
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:33,330
sensation that I shouldn't be looking at

561
00:27:38,629 --> 00:27:36,090
this and she says it made she said it

562
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:38,639
made me afraid she says but it was like

563
00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:41,490
I was being told not to look and she

564
00:27:45,379 --> 00:27:42,990
said I'll just step back close the

565
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:45,389
curtains and she says afterwards I was

566
00:27:48,220 --> 00:27:47,820
thinking how irrational that was and it

567
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,230
wasn't

568
00:27:53,770 --> 00:27:50,960
normal and no that's right so two

569
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:53,780
minutes later she got her cuz they older

570
00:27:58,360 --> 00:27:55,730
cousin and they went back to the window

571
00:28:01,330 --> 00:27:58,370
opened the curtains and it was just one

572
00:28:02,620 --> 00:28:01,340
single very large bright light there and

573
00:28:04,690 --> 00:28:02,630
she said it was quite large

574
00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:04,700
she said if he could old a normal sized

575
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:07,100
light bulb at arm's length it was that

576
00:28:13,659 --> 00:28:10,880
big it was a 3040 degrees above the

577
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:13,669
horizon appeared to be stationary and

578
00:28:18,190 --> 00:28:16,640
she said we watched that for a while and

579
00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:18,200
then she said for someone makes

580
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:20,540
clickable reason again she said I got

581
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:23,600
scared of it and then they stepped back

582
00:28:29,169 --> 00:28:27,110
again and closed the curtains again and

583
00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:29,179
she said it was weird it was fascinating

584
00:28:34,990 --> 00:28:31,660
she's never seen anything like it before

585
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:35,000
but she said it was like however they

586
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:44,560
interested so in your description of

587
00:28:49,870 --> 00:28:46,940
your book and which you can get on

588
00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:49,880
Amazon for books you know you can find

589
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:51,950
it on there Paul's out of my numbers and

590
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:53,720
now for a number of months you

591
00:28:59,620 --> 00:28:56,809
describing the description Paul that you

592
00:29:01,570 --> 00:28:59,630
personally believe these are experiences

593
00:29:04,539 --> 00:29:01,580
contribute to the making of the real

594
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,549
story of why we are here and where we

595
00:29:09,010 --> 00:29:06,799
are going why are we here then in your

596
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,020
opinion and where we can write again

597
00:29:14,110 --> 00:29:11,840
it's slightly going off the beaten track

598
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:14,120
of you apology what I've tried to do and

599
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:15,710
no offense to Philly Paul any good

600
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:19,760
investigators because I think Philip or

601
00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:24,830
taken everyone might took against but

602
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:27,230
the there is with some fantastic minds

603
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:28,940
out there some brilliant people they've

604
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:31,360
done a lot of footwork and a lot of

605
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:34,070
fantastic books and we need these people

606
00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:36,110
to bring this out into the open

607
00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:37,669
and I think the more that this is

608
00:29:41,470 --> 00:29:39,230
brought into the open and brought more

609
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:41,480
into the public domain so but people

610
00:29:47,770 --> 00:29:44,809
aware of it or are aware of it then the

611
00:29:50,140 --> 00:29:47,780
better people ecology because in my

612
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:50,150
opinion again he suggests my opinion

613
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:54,110
this has been covered up as in dr. Irene

614
00:29:59,919 --> 00:29:56,960
his cause book you know lies and

615
00:30:01,629 --> 00:29:59,929
misinformation for the last 70 years and

616
00:30:05,589 --> 00:30:01,639
I think that's absolute

617
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:05,599
only true and because of the media shall

618
00:30:13,690 --> 00:30:09,369
we say debunking and tongue-in-cheek

619
00:30:17,349 --> 00:30:13,700
comedic coverage at the ufology and

620
00:30:18,969 --> 00:30:17,359
that's contributed to it now going back

621
00:30:21,369 --> 00:30:18,979
to what we were talking about earlier

622
00:30:23,499 --> 00:30:21,379
where I said these people have done a

623
00:30:29,019 --> 00:30:23,509
really good job and Phillips no

624
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:29,029
exception is the people tend to just do

625
00:30:39,099 --> 00:30:33,049
either a single event as in the Calvin

626
00:30:41,139 --> 00:30:39,109
Parker case or maybe UFOs from a single

627
00:30:43,649 --> 00:30:41,149
country or things like that so you tend

628
00:30:46,959 --> 00:30:43,659
to get small portions of the whole thing

629
00:30:48,639 --> 00:30:46,969
now because of some of the paranormal

630
00:30:52,449 --> 00:30:48,649
events and friends that I've got the

631
00:30:55,149 --> 00:30:52,459
done research in paranormal groups and

632
00:30:57,599 --> 00:30:55,159
even people on the daresay fringes like

633
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:57,609
Paul double that do earth lights and

634
00:31:06,069 --> 00:31:01,519
other shall we say related phenomenon

635
00:31:09,069 --> 00:31:06,079
Lima I believe that if science was to

636
00:31:11,769 --> 00:31:09,079
look at it and fund the money properly

637
00:31:14,469 --> 00:31:11,779
instead of wasting money on SETI and

638
00:31:17,109 --> 00:31:14,479
these other stupid programs if they

639
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:17,119
looked at things properly they would be

640
00:31:22,989 --> 00:31:20,329
able to look into the paranormal and you

641
00:31:25,419 --> 00:31:22,999
froze and they come I won't say under

642
00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:25,429
the same umbrella but along adjacent

643
00:31:30,959 --> 00:31:27,229
umbrellas and they're all part of the

644
00:31:33,399 --> 00:31:30,969
bigger picture if you like mm-hmm that's

645
00:31:35,619 --> 00:31:33,409
interesting what was it that Stanton

646
00:31:39,069 --> 00:31:35,629
Friedman called SETI can you remember

647
00:31:40,629 --> 00:31:39,079
filled something-or-other to investigate

648
00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:40,639
it something I can't remember what you

649
00:31:46,299 --> 00:31:42,649
know but he wasn't that important

650
00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:46,309
where's the time basically I mean I have

651
00:31:52,239 --> 00:31:47,929
a colleague in London it was a big you

652
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,249
know fan of the the SETI I had this

653
00:31:56,619 --> 00:31:54,799
argument with him I say no it's it's

654
00:31:58,509 --> 00:31:56,629
just a complete waste of time and money

655
00:32:01,440 --> 00:31:58,519
I can understand why scientists a

656
00:32:05,859 --> 00:32:01,450
attempt in it but as as I pointed out

657
00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:05,869
you know the next most intelligent

658
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:09,369
creature on earth is the dolphin and we

659
00:32:13,659 --> 00:32:11,690
the scientists are led to believe that

660
00:32:15,030 --> 00:32:13,669
it does have a rudimentary language but

661
00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:15,040
we can understand it

662
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:17,080
right here what what is clicks and beeps

663
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,090
are talking about with teach it you jump

664
00:32:24,090 --> 00:32:21,760
up there and catch a fish but we cat cat

665
00:32:24,690 --> 00:32:24,100
cat we can't speak to it and ask it a

666
00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:24,700
question

667
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:27,940
so you know we're beaming signals out

668
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:31,690
into the into the cosmos and we're

669
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:35,410
looking to receive signals well you know

670
00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:37,570
how are we expected to understand them

671
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:40,840
even if we receive them you know the

672
00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:42,370
begs the question as far as I'm

673
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:45,790
concerned and of course because muscle

674
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:48,910
is so big you know I again I read some

675
00:32:56,970 --> 00:32:52,710
some space science material recently and

676
00:33:00,810 --> 00:32:56,980
the visible universe is is 48 billion

677
00:33:02,910 --> 00:33:00,820
light years across and they asked 2

678
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:02,920
trillion galaxies and in those two

679
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:05,410
trillion galaxies these zillions of you

680
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:07,810
know stars and planets so it's an

681
00:33:14,220 --> 00:33:10,030
immense thing I mean you know your point

682
00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:14,230
you you radio telescopes out into space

683
00:33:18,090 --> 00:33:15,520
where would you start

684
00:33:20,490 --> 00:33:18,100
I mean it's not only that you know and

685
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:20,500
when we talk about et visiting the earth

686
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:22,930
and I'm not ruling it out you know

687
00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:24,760
you think I would defined us in the

688
00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:26,680
first place so that's always bothered me

689
00:33:32,460 --> 00:33:29,950
Chris because we've only been sending

690
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,470
out you know radio signals at the speed

691
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:34,960
of light for 150 years and they're about

692
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:37,690
a maybe in a hundred years time they'll

693
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:39,550
be gone will the world would be

694
00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:41,890
completely digital so will no longer be

695
00:33:47,610 --> 00:33:44,800
a hot spot in space so you know

696
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:47,620
cosmologically we haven't even touched

697
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,090
even when it was scratched the surface

698
00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:52,240
those signals have gone nowhere and if

699
00:33:57,870 --> 00:33:54,790
you think about it when you see the film

700
00:33:59,700 --> 00:33:57,880
contact and they receive this signal and

701
00:34:01,560 --> 00:33:59,710
then they they've got it on the screen

702
00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:01,570
what they do they've sent back some of

703
00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:05,080
the first TV pictures from Earth which

704
00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:07,390
was the the Berlin Olympics and a dolph

705
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:11,560
ziggler in 1936 or 34 somewhere around

706
00:34:18,330 --> 00:34:16,510
there yeah you know and Soho you know I

707
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:18,340
don't know I don't know honest I said

708
00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:21,760
like if you were to invent interstellar

709
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:25,270
travel tomorrow where would you go you

710
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,850
know literally I'm talking Star Trek you

711
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:28,960
know space travel

712
00:34:34,919 --> 00:34:31,599
where would you yeah oh where would you

713
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:34,929
point it and you know I don't know I

714
00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:37,030
mean mankind for whatever reason

715
00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:39,730
gentlemen has always had this this

716
00:34:44,730 --> 00:34:41,950
curiosity gene is what I've often

717
00:34:46,379 --> 00:34:44,740
referred to as we want to know what's

718
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:46,389
around the next corner over the next

719
00:34:53,069 --> 00:34:50,950
hill beyond the next horizon but would

720
00:34:55,049 --> 00:34:53,079
that mean there may well be countless

721
00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:55,059
intelligent species out there but there

722
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:56,980
might be quite happy where they are they

723
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:02,079
don't have don't have that gene and sir

724
00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:05,290
oh there's the it would have been nice

725
00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:07,030
to have put those kind of things into

726
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:09,400
the Drake Equation is me add a flood to

727
00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:10,690
meets the eyes which I'm an astronomer

728
00:35:15,809 --> 00:35:13,150
what support in his equation now there

729
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:15,819
you go you know fill it to go on from

730
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:17,290
that that's one of the things that

731
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,710
always amazes me how people say well

732
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:22,480
what we didn't see it or whatever and

733
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:24,540
it's when you actually look at the

734
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:27,010
electromagnetic spectrum and the visible

735
00:35:30,089 --> 00:35:29,170
light that you and I can actually see

736
00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:30,099
yeah

737
00:35:36,990 --> 00:35:33,940
it's less than 1/10 of 1% so if you'll

738
00:35:38,339 --> 00:35:37,000
think now as in SETI and some of these

739
00:35:40,589 --> 00:35:38,349
others where they starting to go through

740
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:40,599
the ultraviolet and then down through

741
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:43,660
the infrared when you look at the whole

742
00:35:47,339 --> 00:35:45,369
of the electromagnetic spectrum

743
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:47,349
if you go we'll just say through from

744
00:35:52,319 --> 00:35:49,690
visible light that we normally see is

745
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:52,329
ultraviolet then x-rays had x-rays or

746
00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:54,130
gamma rays or the shorter wavelengths

747
00:35:57,870 --> 00:35:56,470
and the higher frequencies and then you

748
00:36:00,539 --> 00:35:57,880
move down through the infrared

749
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:00,549
microwaves and the longer radio waves

750
00:36:07,859 --> 00:36:04,720
and the lower frequencies in my opinion

751
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:07,869
and again it's just my opinion that we

752
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:11,380
are so what can I say I won't say

753
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:15,369
backward but we are it's an n-tuple

754
00:36:20,579 --> 00:36:19,119
if you like a spot in our learning curve

755
00:36:22,829 --> 00:36:20,589
I'm not saying not in that going to do

756
00:36:24,089 --> 00:36:22,839
in a derogatory way because we book how

757
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,099
far we've come on just in the last

758
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,520
hundred years alone but if you get we've

759
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:29,200
only been round or the Earth's been

760
00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:30,990
around for four and a half billion years

761
00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:33,640
if you looked about on that there's a

762
00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:37,540
clock face the human race in modern time

763
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:40,270
does Homo sapiens haven't been haven't

764
00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:42,490
even been here for a minute it's down to

765
00:36:46,829 --> 00:36:43,140
second

766
00:36:49,950 --> 00:36:46,839
so right yeah so if you look at somebody

767
00:36:52,140 --> 00:36:49,960
who will just say another species or

768
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:52,150
another could even be Homo sapiens on

769
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,700
another planet that could have evolved

770
00:36:59,130 --> 00:36:57,040
in the big scheme of things a million

771
00:37:00,900 --> 00:36:59,140
years before rose so there in a million

772
00:37:03,150 --> 00:37:00,910
years further down the road than we are

773
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:03,160
now you just look at that on how far

774
00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:04,540
we've come on in the last hundred years

775
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:06,670
where the heck are we going to be in

776
00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:08,020
another hundred years or another

777
00:37:12,990 --> 00:37:09,670
thousand years and they have already

778
00:37:14,819 --> 00:37:13,000
surpassed that so this is the other

779
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:14,829
thing that's interesting what you say

780
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:17,530
there Paul because well if it's only me

781
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:20,290
but I've noticed a few places in our

782
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:24,130
what it's it's crop top that people are

783
00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:26,530
saying you know tend to believe UFOs are

784
00:37:32,579 --> 00:37:29,470
real etcetera etcetera however not

785
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,589
convinced ect could it be from the

786
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:34,480
future could this be you know and out

787
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:37,630
now I met a gentleman many years ago

788
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:40,770
well in the 1990s a he's a

789
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:43,150
japanese-american he's called professor

790
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:46,240
Michio Kaku the cosmologists it was in

791
00:37:51,809 --> 00:37:48,730
the UK promoting his book which is

792
00:37:53,579 --> 00:37:51,819
called hyperspace and I met him at his

793
00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:53,589
hotel he was staying at in Manchester

794
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:54,940
and I managed to grab an interview with

795
00:37:58,829 --> 00:37:57,010
him and he had to really dumb it down

796
00:38:01,440 --> 00:37:58,839
for me I mean you know I make no mistake

797
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:01,450
about this you know me it would have

798
00:38:05,609 --> 00:38:03,550
been me totally yeah and he talked about

799
00:38:09,540 --> 00:38:05,619
other dimensions and he talked about

800
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:09,550
time travel and he said theoretically

801
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:13,359
Phillip time trouble is plausible but he

802
00:38:19,050 --> 00:38:15,730
said the only thing we lack at the

803
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:19,060
moment is the power source in order to

804
00:38:22,890 --> 00:38:21,250
make time travel possible he said I give

805
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:22,900
you an example of the kind of power we

806
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:25,060
would need maybe something equivalent to

807
00:38:33,839 --> 00:38:29,200
our Sun but he said it would you know I

808
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,849
it would never if he thought well it

809
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:35,440
would never surprise me if one day

810
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:38,050
somebody went pop and appeared and that

811
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:41,910
would be his you know however many

812
00:38:45,569 --> 00:38:43,930
great-grandchildren in the future to pop

813
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,579
back to say hello you were right you

814
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:48,400
know I mean and he also talked about

815
00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:51,250
different dimensions and he told this

816
00:38:54,930 --> 00:38:52,569
told me this story where he had a

817
00:38:56,730 --> 00:38:54,940
Russian cosmology staying with him and

818
00:38:59,010 --> 00:38:56,740
they went to a casino on each

819
00:39:02,190 --> 00:38:59,020
50 dollars and we put it all on one

820
00:39:03,330 --> 00:39:02,200
number so professor Kakaako said don't

821
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:03,340
you think that's a mistake don't you

822
00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:05,610
ought to keep back this is no easy pick

823
00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:09,340
us I know I know in one universe or I'll

824
00:39:15,810 --> 00:39:14,590
actually win multiple dimensions we said

825
00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:15,820
I know in one damage and I'll actually

826
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:18,760
win so it got karamanian laughs and he

827
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:22,510
talked to me in using Star Trek

828
00:39:29,150 --> 00:39:24,970
terminology so I can understand and it

829
00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:29,160
was absolutely fascinating and of course

830
00:39:34,170 --> 00:39:32,260
Britain's most famous case for one of a

831
00:39:37,530 --> 00:39:34,180
better phrase is what happened at

832
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:37,540
Rendlesham in December 1980 and of

833
00:39:44,730 --> 00:39:40,720
course one of the witnesses involved

834
00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:44,740
there Jim Penniston has said that the

835
00:39:51,540 --> 00:39:47,470
object he encountered that night he was

836
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:51,550
told that it was a it was also from the

837
00:39:58,650 --> 00:39:56,410
future when I say also made mankind so I

838
00:40:00,990 --> 00:39:58,660
don't know Paul made me you know who

839
00:40:02,970 --> 00:40:01,000
knows mate who knows but it's just

840
00:40:05,730 --> 00:40:02,980
fascinates me it really does yeah

841
00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:05,740
well this is one of our members gone so

842
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:07,600
nice okay Paul going one of the things

843
00:40:13,770 --> 00:40:11,410
but that I always have always and there

844
00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:13,780
always annoys me is when you see these

845
00:40:17,849 --> 00:40:16,060
you're gone Sky television and see these

846
00:40:20,099 --> 00:40:17,859
programs you have for hunters or

847
00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:20,109
whatever and they are interviewing these

848
00:40:26,609 --> 00:40:24,070
primers now Philip there you had the

849
00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:26,619
good experience when you went to with a

850
00:40:30,359 --> 00:40:28,390
television program recently was it

851
00:40:33,090 --> 00:40:30,369
captain ray boy or the pilot from

852
00:40:36,030 --> 00:40:33,100
originally from the Channel Islands yes

853
00:40:38,910 --> 00:40:36,040
and now dead-straight level-headed guy

854
00:40:41,550 --> 00:40:38,920
been flying for donkey's years lot of

855
00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:41,560
experience and he just said this was

856
00:40:47,310 --> 00:40:43,960
huge and this was not normal and this

857
00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:47,320
didn't have any flight services so this

858
00:40:56,740 --> 00:40:53,650
like services that don't exist because

859
00:41:00,310 --> 00:40:56,750
they don't fly and it's same going back

860
00:41:03,339 --> 00:41:00,320
to what the professor said where people

861
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,349
assume because some things five will

862
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:05,359
just separate I didn't say five million

863
00:41:08,740 --> 00:41:07,250
light years away that it takes five

864
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:08,750
million light years to get here

865
00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:13,130
well these are saying no it doesn't you

866
00:41:18,370 --> 00:41:16,670
know it's it's like there's people now

867
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:18,380
off and I'm not saying that your purpose

868
00:41:23,530 --> 00:41:20,690
is one of them but they're really sort

869
00:41:26,020 --> 00:41:23,540
of moving things along and that thought

870
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:26,030
if you imagine every thought that you

871
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:27,890
have but we can measure you know the

872
00:41:33,579 --> 00:41:30,079
comporting electrodes on your head and

873
00:41:35,140 --> 00:41:33,589
they can see what actually see your

874
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:35,150
brain waves moving now now they can't

875
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:36,410
decipher it they don't know what you're

876
00:41:40,990 --> 00:41:39,530
thinking but because these will just

877
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:41,000
appear argument's sake could be a

878
00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:43,730
million years in and advancable they can

879
00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:46,520
read it they can see it and I have been

880
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:50,180
again on in my opinion but I think it

881
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:52,640
could be because they're so far advanced

882
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:55,010
in us they can pick these radio waves up

883
00:41:59,470 --> 00:41:56,960
and they can make that connection and

884
00:42:01,960 --> 00:41:59,480
it's just standard thing to them and

885
00:42:05,859 --> 00:42:01,970
it's exactly the same as you think

886
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:05,869
something that is a reality somewhere as

887
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:10,400
he said and it's being able to what can

888
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:12,800
I say refine that and understand it

889
00:42:14,859 --> 00:42:14,690
enough so that you can do something with

890
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:14,869
it

891
00:42:23,470 --> 00:42:16,910
but they can obviously do and we

892
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:23,480
obviously count absolutely so just going

893
00:42:27,790 --> 00:42:24,650
back to your book a little bit again

894
00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:27,800
Pollock the same I do know that you you

895
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:30,790
add a period of time in the military and

896
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:32,810
I'll give that help you in your research

897
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:35,000
of the of the phenomenon that we call

898
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:38,089
UFO right well apart from sightings that

899
00:42:42,970 --> 00:42:40,250
I had when I was in the military a

900
00:42:46,089 --> 00:42:42,980
couple of which are actually documented

901
00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:46,099
in the book one of the things that I did

902
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:48,020
I was I was a medic have always been

903
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:49,970
medically based and trained all my life

904
00:42:58,030 --> 00:42:55,130
and I I was a in the medical center for

905
00:42:59,170 --> 00:42:58,040
the local colliery when the eye could

906
00:43:01,420 --> 00:42:59,180
see what was going to happen with the

907
00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:01,430
miners strike but already being a member

908
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,950
of the territorial army I asked to go

909
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:05,040
into the regular

910
00:43:10,490 --> 00:43:08,400
omocha went so in some ways I feel like

911
00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:10,500
I skipped the boat and abundant people

912
00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:12,900
go in other ways from my personal life

913
00:43:20,030 --> 00:43:16,740
it did me a lot of good so I went in the

914
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:20,040
infantry as a medic um all of my posting

915
00:43:26,930 --> 00:43:22,890
it was Berlin where it was still the

916
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:26,940
cold war there it was still isolated you

917
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:29,490
were still what can I say at the behest

918
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:31,770
of the Russians really who controlled

919
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:34,230
the whole of the land around West Berlin

920
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:39,570
itself it just it's so looking at it

921
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:43,170
from their point of view we sort of we

922
00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:44,910
were like interlopers into their space

923
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:48,060
I'm working as infantry soldiers you

924
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:49,770
have to have the knowledge of what

925
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:51,960
you're looking at so I was a member of a

926
00:43:56,420 --> 00:43:53,910
close observation platoon reconnaissance

927
00:43:58,970 --> 00:43:56,430
platoon and as part of that you learn

928
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,980
all about different I mean yes like more

929
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,720
soldiers you learn about ballistics and

930
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:02,880
weapons and firing them but you learn

931
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:05,220
there seemed a lot more depth and being

932
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:07,410
in the medic as well you learn a lot

933
00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:09,900
more depth of what these weapons can do

934
00:44:14,180 --> 00:44:12,359
and the effects and blast injuries and

935
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:14,190
things like that that the normal public

936
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:17,130
don't get to know about plus we also

937
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:20,880
used to teach aircraft recognition we

938
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,359
had to be able to recognize whether they

939
00:44:28,460 --> 00:44:26,640
were friendly aircraft or whether they

940
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:28,470
were enemy aircraft at the want of a

941
00:44:33,980 --> 00:44:31,800
better term so during that Cold War I

942
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:33,990
was just if you provide a better way of

943
00:44:39,490 --> 00:44:35,730
putting it in the right place at the

944
00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:39,500
right time where we have to learn about

945
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:42,660
foreign technology we have to learn

946
00:44:47,930 --> 00:44:45,090
about foreign aircraft and you had to be

947
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:47,940
able to identify them so as well as

948
00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:51,090
looking at normal field work and weather

949
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:53,670
cloud formations and phenomenon like

950
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:55,530
that so that you know when to mover went

951
00:45:00,530 --> 00:44:56,400
to stay put

952
00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:00,540
you also was able to identify anything

953
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:03,270
that moved in the sky as well as to a

954
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,740
certain extent astronomy and other

955
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:09,359
things like that that was part of my

956
00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:12,000
little things that I enjoyed doing and

957
00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:19,940
so while you was completely in your

958
00:45:24,589 --> 00:45:22,470
researcher the real story was there any

959
00:45:27,380 --> 00:45:24,599
one particular sighting or close

960
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:27,390
encounter that stood out above the rest

961
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:31,890
for you and if so why yeah in as we've

962
00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:34,290
just touched on earlier I met Philip in

963
00:45:39,290 --> 00:45:36,599
the early nineties I think it was 92 the

964
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,300
first time the one of the when we went

965
00:45:44,359 --> 00:45:41,760
to the library feature in Sheffield for

966
00:45:46,780 --> 00:45:44,369
one of the beautiful conferences and

967
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:46,790
that sort of bought my eyes really I

968
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:50,390
mean there was the usual Jenny Randall's

969
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:53,970
and Robert Stabler call the all the gang

970
00:46:00,080 --> 00:45:57,060
if you like but it was good for me

971
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:00,090
because like you say it's great to go to

972
00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:03,330
these places and meet people talk to

973
00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:06,030
like-minded individuals but it's also

974
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:07,740
good to talk about different subjects

975
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,780
and maybe get a different perspective on

976
00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:12,720
things or put some little seed in there

977
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:14,790
that you haven't thought about because

978
00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:18,000
you can you can be narrow-minded in the

979
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:20,670
field of ufology you've got to go with

980
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:23,070
the flow and if things change you have

981
00:46:28,670 --> 00:46:26,460
to change with it and I think that in

982
00:46:31,550 --> 00:46:28,680
the times that were in now

983
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:31,560
it's really good for people getting into

984
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:33,960
your follow G there are more shall we

985
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:36,060
say scientifically minded people that

986
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:38,690
are taken an interest and the genuine

987
00:46:45,980 --> 00:46:42,770
and a trained to help the subject along

988
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:45,990
yeah what's your opinion then Paul of

989
00:46:51,290 --> 00:46:49,440
them the documents that have been well

990
00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:51,300
sorry not the documents the the New York

991
00:46:56,210 --> 00:46:54,180
Times front page article actually

992
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:56,220
admitting from the American Department

993
00:47:01,040 --> 00:46:58,770
of Defense or the Pentagon that they

994
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:01,050
have been investigating year with all

995
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:03,630
cases and were continuing to do so up

996
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:06,170
until at least I believe it was 2012

997
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:09,420
2013 what's your opinion of that my

998
00:47:12,740 --> 00:47:11,310
opinion is they've been investigating it

999
00:47:15,740 --> 00:47:12,750
since the Second World War and they're

1000
00:47:17,650 --> 00:47:15,750
still investigating it today they're

1001
00:47:19,370 --> 00:47:17,660
just admitting so in other words and

1002
00:47:22,250 --> 00:47:19,380
they're not telling there's anything

1003
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,260
with it no really well that's true into

1004
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:24,780
but I mean in so many words they're

1005
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:25,980
though they've admitted that they've

1006
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,890
lied to the general public of the way

1007
00:47:32,810 --> 00:47:30,240
yeah

1008
00:47:35,570 --> 00:47:32,820
you know since the Second World War they

1009
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:35,580
have lied to the general public because

1010
00:47:40,579 --> 00:47:37,710
they were afraid that there were things

1011
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:40,589
in our skies that they had absolutely no

1012
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:44,250
control over they'd got no defense

1013
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:46,440
against it and they didn't know anything

1014
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,140
about it and it was just like we can't

1015
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:51,119
let the public know that we've got to

1016
00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:52,890
you know so that's why it's been

1017
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:56,790
debunked and pooled ever since well

1018
00:48:00,320 --> 00:47:58,050
that's why they brought the ridicule

1019
00:48:03,079 --> 00:48:00,330
fact yeah isn't it so you know so you

1020
00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:03,089
know make everybody you know look like

1021
00:48:08,690 --> 00:48:06,030
some kind of circus freak you know for

1022
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:08,700
investigating UFOs flying saucers UAVs

1023
00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:11,070
whatever you want to call them so how

1024
00:48:16,220 --> 00:48:13,140
would you respond respondent to anybody

1025
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:16,230
who says that you know studying UFOs or

1026
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:17,520
being involved in the field of ufology

1027
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:19,020
is a complete waste of time

1028
00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:20,970
how would you respond absolutely no no

1029
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:22,980
because there's something out there

1030
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:25,410
that's far more scientifically advanced

1031
00:48:29,660 --> 00:48:27,210
the laws that we don't know anything

1032
00:48:31,609 --> 00:48:29,670
about or very little about and it's only

1033
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,619
through people like Phillip especially

1034
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:33,119
he was getting old through plain

1035
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:35,369
distress and getting information out

1036
00:48:40,190 --> 00:48:37,980
there that people are being made aware

1037
00:48:43,220 --> 00:48:40,200
of it because let's face it there are

1038
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:43,230
people now and I know I live in a nice

1039
00:48:46,940 --> 00:48:45,210
little cul-de-sac and there are people

1040
00:48:48,980 --> 00:48:46,950
on this cul-de-sac that I've never

1041
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:48,990
considered UFOs in their life it doesn't

1042
00:48:55,010 --> 00:48:52,710
come into the way and yet they've been

1043
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:55,020
there throughout their life it's just

1044
00:48:59,420 --> 00:48:57,570
being put on a back burner and unless

1045
00:49:01,970 --> 00:48:59,430
they physically see a really good

1046
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:01,980
sighting don't even occur to them won't

1047
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:04,950
even come on to their rate yeah I think

1048
00:49:10,070 --> 00:49:09,000
most people tend to of that well they

1049
00:49:11,359 --> 00:49:10,080
don't really have the thought in the

1050
00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:11,369
read yet that I'm going to go out to

1051
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:13,470
here I'm gonna see wafer because nine

1052
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:15,119
times out of ten we live in a society

1053
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,369
where we're born we go to school for so

1054
00:49:22,099 --> 00:49:19,200
many years we have to work then when you

1055
00:49:23,690 --> 00:49:22,109
get to it like our age sixties plus you

1056
00:49:25,339 --> 00:49:23,700
know then that's when you family become

1057
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:25,349
not about your family aren't important

1058
00:49:29,180 --> 00:49:27,150
but tend to spend more time with your

1059
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:29,190
family so we seem to go through life on

1060
00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:31,890
this cycle which is a loop which

1061
00:49:36,050 --> 00:49:33,540
continues to go around and round and

1062
00:49:37,609 --> 00:49:36,060
round you know and we don't think a lot

1063
00:49:40,190 --> 00:49:37,619
of the time but the possibility of a

1064
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:40,200
life elsewhere or is this life visible

1065
00:49:43,340 --> 00:49:42,570
just carry on sometimes with blinkers on

1066
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:43,350
you know you know

1067
00:49:49,370 --> 00:49:47,490
seeing what's going on now what is the

1068
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:49,380
future for yourself then Paul we do have

1069
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:51,810
any more books in in her in Mario do you

1070
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:53,880
have you knows now our sub just say yes

1071
00:49:57,260 --> 00:49:55,920
I haven't started yet

1072
00:50:00,830 --> 00:49:57,270
but because what I did with the last

1073
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:00,840
book I just took notes almost over

1074
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:03,540
different periods of my life to what had

1075
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:05,910
happened and it gradually expanded so

1076
00:50:09,770 --> 00:50:07,800
but I could put it in some format that

1077
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:09,780
flowed if you like that made it easy for

1078
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:12,780
people to read so what I've tried to do

1079
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:15,540
is make it so that people can understand

1080
00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:17,370
us as Philip said with the professor

1081
00:50:23,470 --> 00:50:19,980
when he was talking to him it's very

1082
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:23,480
easy to get bogged down in silence and

1083
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:26,490
although some people obviously more

1084
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,020
intelligent than others and always will

1085
00:50:33,860 --> 00:50:30,720
be don't make it difficult for people

1086
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:33,870
you've got to write in ways that people

1087
00:50:38,030 --> 00:50:35,970
could just pick it up and read it and

1088
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:38,040
understand it and if you don't do that

1089
00:50:41,090 --> 00:50:38,970
yeah

1090
00:50:43,010 --> 00:50:41,100
and I'm afraid there are you'll follow

1091
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:43,020
gist and authors out there and that tend

1092
00:50:48,650 --> 00:50:47,370
to lose people because did it go too far

1093
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:48,660
off the other end of the scale if you

1094
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:51,330
know what I mean yeah don't keep it in

1095
00:50:56,110 --> 00:50:53,850
layman's terms you know yeah make it

1096
00:50:58,850 --> 00:50:56,120
understandable for people yeah I'm sure

1097
00:51:00,560 --> 00:50:58,860
you know there are no half pick books up

1098
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:00,570
at times and started to read and put

1099
00:51:04,510 --> 00:51:02,610
them down because the language that is

1100
00:51:10,730 --> 00:51:04,520
used in the book is just so far above my

1101
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:10,740
education with you so in your opinion

1102
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:13,410
then I will keep moving forward with UFO

1103
00:51:17,330 --> 00:51:15,300
research because I know quite recently

1104
00:51:19,340 --> 00:51:17,340
myself you and Phil we actually

1105
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:19,350
discussed a little bit about before and

1106
00:51:23,570 --> 00:51:21,450
I mentioned we do I believe that we need

1107
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:23,580
some kind of national governing body

1108
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:26,730
which maybe not to take over but you

1109
00:51:30,290 --> 00:51:28,410
know maybe some kind of governing body

1110
00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:30,300
wherever information can be searched and

1111
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:32,520
and and we can refer to other people's

1112
00:51:36,770 --> 00:51:33,900
reports you know I think we need

1113
00:51:40,130 --> 00:51:36,780
something like that how do you feel in

1114
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:40,140
some ways it's an ideal because it's

1115
00:51:44,450 --> 00:51:42,690
like any subject any workplace anything

1116
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:44,460
in the world where you go to you're

1117
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:46,590
going to get some genuine people who

1118
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:48,300
genuinely want to do good things and

1119
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:51,510
more things forward but he also attracts

1120
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:54,210
the cooks and the fringe dare I say and

1121
00:51:59,839 --> 00:51:57,210
you can't help your media yeah

1122
00:52:01,549 --> 00:51:59,849
and it's unfortunate but it's an every

1123
00:52:03,529 --> 00:52:01,559
walk of life that we come across and

1124
00:52:07,309 --> 00:52:03,539
they feel the view college is no

1125
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:07,319
different and I think the best way

1126
00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:10,200
forward is to do what we're doing now is

1127
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:13,500
to get it out and I mean modern science

1128
00:52:19,460 --> 00:52:16,500
and modern technology and social media a

1129
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:19,470
fantastic feel ecology because people

1130
00:52:26,059 --> 00:52:21,660
can do more and more things I'm always

1131
00:52:28,579 --> 00:52:26,069
hoping to what can I say CGI on YouTube

1132
00:52:32,019 --> 00:52:28,589
and things like that but having said

1133
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:32,029
that there are genuine cases out there

1134
00:52:39,529 --> 00:52:36,079
it's like I put I have a Facebook page

1135
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:39,539
which I use called it's the real story

1136
00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:43,650
and it's specifically for UFOs UFO

1137
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:46,109
stories experiences and things like that

1138
00:52:53,539 --> 00:52:51,690
and I put a post on about the me try and

1139
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:53,549
paraphrase it correctly the China

1140
00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:57,450
sighting which was the Xiao Chun airport

1141
00:53:05,289 --> 00:53:01,260
in hangeul province now that was really

1142
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:07,789
genuine sighting they closed the airport

1143
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:10,650
for an hour it was seen by pilots it was

1144
00:53:14,839 --> 00:53:12,420
seen my lots of individuals on the

1145
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:14,849
ground with lots of photographs and lots

1146
00:53:19,630 --> 00:53:17,910
of video on you know good part from that

1147
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:19,640
you corroborate of evidence from

1148
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:23,460
eyewitnesses on the ground but you've

1149
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:25,650
still got some where somebody did a

1150
00:53:30,799 --> 00:53:27,930
photograph timeless photograph of a

1151
00:53:35,180 --> 00:53:30,809
police helicopter and then called on and

1152
00:53:38,359 --> 00:53:35,190
said it's just a hoax and that sort of

1153
00:53:41,299 --> 00:53:38,369
infer shall we say an outsider or

1154
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:41,309
somebody new to your college II straight

1155
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:44,160
to a back was doubt in the minds and it

1156
00:53:51,549 --> 00:53:48,089
was the same with the UFO over the Dome

1157
00:53:54,740 --> 00:53:51,559
of the rock of Jerusalem in 2011 again

1158
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:54,750
fantastic sightings is now six videos

1159
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:58,500
come to light one of which again was

1160
00:54:05,019 --> 00:54:01,200
done as a hoax it was the wrong CGI to

1161
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:08,210
people I mean like Jim one more song he

1162
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:09,690
went out there interview with a lot of

1163
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:10,690
people

1164
00:54:15,330 --> 00:54:13,330
and the thing that I've always said all

1165
00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:15,340
along isn't just I've been approached a

1166
00:54:20,070 --> 00:54:17,470
graph is no good just up in a video

1167
00:54:22,410 --> 00:54:20,080
you've got to have corroborating

1168
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:22,420
evidence whether it's on radar whether

1169
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:24,640
it's other people or the witnesses from

1170
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:26,680
different locations and the more

1171
00:54:31,830 --> 00:54:28,480
information and the more collaborative

1172
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,840
evidence you've got then the more is

1173
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:33,280
going to stand up in a court of law or

1174
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:36,490
one - the better - yeah what's your

1175
00:54:42,330 --> 00:54:38,170
opinion on that Lynn Feld you think we

1176
00:54:44,970 --> 00:54:42,340
need some kind of new modern storage

1177
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:44,980
system or some kind of maybe place

1178
00:54:49,290 --> 00:54:47,410
online a website online where people can

1179
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:49,300
send information in and we can put it I

1180
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:52,240
think but with proper guidelines and

1181
00:54:56,700 --> 00:54:53,680
yeah well you know you before are still

1182
00:54:58,980 --> 00:54:56,710
going up although pretty much in name

1183
00:55:01,080 --> 00:54:58,990
only there's still a handful of people

1184
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:01,090
you know dedicated to it and fair play

1185
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:03,370
to them I mean when I was director of

1186
00:55:08,010 --> 00:55:05,770
Investigations before we had a thousand

1187
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,020
members and out of those thousand

1188
00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:10,480
members we'd like you know 110%

1189
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:14,800
volunteers of UFO investigators and I

1190
00:55:18,810 --> 00:55:16,720
had them all listed in two different

1191
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:18,820
areas we used to have regional

1192
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:21,280
coordinators and I'm all in the thing I

1193
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:23,110
used to do I used to go around all the

1194
00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:25,690
other sort of local UFO groups and and

1195
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:27,910
trying to build up a rapport with them

1196
00:55:33,060 --> 00:55:30,610
and and you know and when we did okay

1197
00:55:36,270 --> 00:55:33,070
now it's just that it's very difficult

1198
00:55:41,730 --> 00:55:36,280
and and it's very time-consuming to to

1199
00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:41,740
sell and run such an organization so I I

1200
00:55:46,620 --> 00:55:43,750
would never rule that out what I would

1201
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:46,630
like to see and this is one thing that

1202
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:49,410
would would would need some financial

1203
00:55:57,620 --> 00:55:53,290
investment is in Sweden we have the

1204
00:55:59,460 --> 00:55:57,630
archives for UFO research I mean

1205
00:56:03,510 --> 00:55:59,470
classify on and his colleagues have done

1206
00:56:05,820 --> 00:56:03,520
an amazing job in rescuing tens of

1207
00:56:07,850 --> 00:56:05,830
thousands of documents books booklets I

1208
00:56:10,140 --> 00:56:07,860
mean you name it and they have got

1209
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:10,150
probably the biggest archive of UFO

1210
00:56:15,950 --> 00:56:12,570
material anywhere in the world

1211
00:56:17,850 --> 00:56:15,960
isn't this the the archive that Isaac I

1212
00:56:22,410 --> 00:56:17,860
sends the information yeah absolutely

1213
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:22,420
and okay but it's in a place called no

1214
00:56:27,059 --> 00:56:24,250
copying in Sweden I mean

1215
00:56:29,099 --> 00:56:27,069
you know up sets of classes you know in

1216
00:56:33,540 --> 00:56:29,109
a friendly way the only thing wrong with

1217
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:33,550
it is its location you know and with so

1218
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:36,480
now I'd love to see that kind of thing

1219
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:39,490
here in the UK I know an old foot

1220
00:56:44,430 --> 00:56:41,530
example it's one or two places in

1221
00:56:47,220 --> 00:56:44,440
America have smaller archives like the

1222
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:47,230
the the Museum in Roswell but if you

1223
00:56:52,339 --> 00:56:49,180
take our friend and colleague John

1224
00:56:55,620 --> 00:56:52,349
Hanson John has probably got the biggest

1225
00:56:58,460 --> 00:56:55,630
collection of UFO material anywhere in

1226
00:57:00,720 --> 00:56:58,470
the UK a lot of which John has rescued

1227
00:57:02,819 --> 00:57:00,730
otherwise it would have ended in in a

1228
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:02,829
skip somewhere you know I've got my own

1229
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:04,930
small little archive here but it would

1230
00:57:11,730 --> 00:57:08,260
be nice if we could have a I don't know

1231
00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:11,740
a reference library or a university that

1232
00:57:18,690 --> 00:57:15,849
would take this material who would look

1233
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:18,700
after it make it publicly available at

1234
00:57:24,540 --> 00:57:22,089
an in person or via the internet Chris

1235
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:24,550
you know scan it all in basically so it

1236
00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:26,890
will be a proper you know working

1237
00:57:32,790 --> 00:57:30,040
reference library on UFO material from

1238
00:57:35,359 --> 00:57:32,800
Britain but it it would need funding

1239
00:57:39,180 --> 00:57:35,369
that's the only thing because you know

1240
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:39,190
the more people of our age as we shuffle

1241
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:42,010
off this mortal coil what's gonna happen

1242
00:57:46,050 --> 00:57:43,569
to the stuff that that I've collected

1243
00:57:49,170 --> 00:57:46,060
I've got a room full of here you know

1244
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:49,180
I've two daughters then I insisted you

1245
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:53,040
know my wife certainly and I insisted

1246
00:57:58,620 --> 00:57:55,359
and if you get something like John

1247
00:58:00,960 --> 00:57:58,630
John's collect you know rescued a huge

1248
00:58:03,839 --> 00:58:00,970
amount of material and you know full

1249
00:58:05,730 --> 00:58:03,849
credit to it to him but what's gonna

1250
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:05,740
happen to it or when when John's are no

1251
00:58:09,390 --> 00:58:07,390
longer with us you know it's not a nice

1252
00:58:11,849 --> 00:58:09,400
thought but it's it's a fact of life

1253
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:11,859
well the one thing we can all be certain

1254
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:13,450
obvious when we when were born it's

1255
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:16,510
where we're all gonna die so absolutely

1256
00:58:20,730 --> 00:58:18,430
and in the middle you get married in

1257
00:58:24,359 --> 00:58:20,740
taxis oh yeah so it would be nice of

1258
00:58:26,730 --> 00:58:24,369
course if this was a well be with a

1259
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:26,740
thing like I just take for example I

1260
00:58:31,230 --> 00:58:28,390
don't mean this literally like the

1261
00:58:33,180 --> 00:58:31,240
British Library for example and they

1262
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:33,190
would archive it make it accessible

1263
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:36,240
treat it seriously in other words

1264
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,020
because that

1265
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,240
one or two sort of local libraries I

1266
00:58:44,130 --> 00:58:42,640
believe that have got donations from a

1267
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:44,140
couple of guys when they've died but

1268
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:45,490
they just sign boxes they're not

1269
00:58:50,550 --> 00:58:46,810
available to anyone they're not

1270
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:50,560
accessible and of course you know over

1271
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:52,000
the last ten years and how many

1272
00:58:57,450 --> 00:58:55,690
libraries have closed a you know so it

1273
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,460
would have to be an establishment that's

1274
00:59:01,440 --> 00:58:59,680
not reliant on private funding you know

1275
00:59:05,730 --> 00:59:01,450
that it's gonna still be around in a

1276
00:59:10,460 --> 00:59:05,740
hundred years so I think I think more

1277
00:59:14,190 --> 00:59:10,470
than a UFO organization for a UFO

1278
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:14,200
investigation us I think an archive is

1279
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:17,050
even more important and further into the

1280
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:20,050
digital age Chris the this kinda stuff

1281
00:59:25,890 --> 00:59:22,810
is for may well fall by the wayside but

1282
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:25,900
if it's if it's handled correctly it can

1283
00:59:31,050 --> 00:59:28,240
be made available to anybody anywhere in

1284
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:31,060
the world you know yeah and I think you

1285
00:59:34,380 --> 00:59:33,010
know it'd be nice if we got a Richard

1286
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,390
Branson or something like that was

1287
00:59:38,910 --> 00:59:36,640
prepared to fund it although it wouldn't

1288
00:59:40,890 --> 00:59:38,920
take zillions but it would take you know

1289
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:40,900
it would take some funding so um you

1290
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:43,200
never know you never know

1291
00:59:51,329 --> 00:59:47,290
absolutely nope all them without

1292
00:59:54,839 --> 00:59:51,339
embarrassing it and rule him out of the

1293
00:59:57,599 --> 00:59:54,849
equation for this over you you years

1294
00:59:59,520 --> 00:59:57,609
involvement with you ology especially in

1295
01:00:01,650 --> 00:59:59,530
Britain I'm not let's not talk about the

1296
01:00:03,870 --> 01:00:01,660
rest of the world for this moment which

1297
01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:03,880
particularly ufologist stand out for you

1298
01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:06,790
as a personal example right

1299
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:09,880
well obviously everybody has good traits

1300
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:12,970
from Bob chase there's no exception but

1301
01:00:27,260 --> 01:00:24,730
I mean that was one thing with Bill

1302
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:27,270
Forum I've been an investigator for them

1303
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:29,920
was able to meet people going to the

1304
01:00:34,290 --> 01:00:31,930
conferences and I was very fortunate

1305
01:00:36,450 --> 01:00:34,300
again helping them out organising

1306
01:00:39,540 --> 01:00:36,460
speakers at conference I was able to sit

1307
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:39,550
another lunch with Budd Hopkins what a

1308
01:00:47,579 --> 01:00:43,050
lovely lovely man he was fabulous gaya

1309
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:47,589
genuine and he was one of again that was

1310
01:00:51,570 --> 01:00:49,510
skeptical to start with it was just an

1311
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:51,580
artist and

1312
01:00:55,830 --> 01:00:53,170
did hypnotic regression to help people

1313
01:00:58,050 --> 01:00:55,840
with good room shall we say ailments and

1314
01:00:59,700 --> 01:00:58,060
just came across this and wife didn't

1315
01:01:01,680 --> 01:00:59,710
come across it a few times at all I

1316
01:01:05,820 --> 01:01:01,690
think there's something more to this and

1317
01:01:08,970 --> 01:01:05,830
eventually he became swayed to the cause

1318
01:01:12,030 --> 01:01:08,980
if you like and carried the flight for

1319
01:01:15,660 --> 01:01:12,040
you follow Jim over the overland in the

1320
01:01:18,270 --> 01:01:15,670
states but I mean going back to an

1321
01:01:21,780 --> 01:01:18,280
earlier question you asked there are

1322
01:01:25,110 --> 01:01:21,790
people as well that sometimes you wish

1323
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:25,120
you could do more for like I I

1324
01:01:30,330 --> 01:01:27,610
investigated a case with pillage help to

1325
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:30,340
start with Philly people remember in a

1326
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:34,450
little remote area in in West Yorkshire

1327
01:01:40,860 --> 01:01:39,250
and it was an alleged abduction and you

1328
01:01:43,980 --> 01:01:40,870
want to be able to help these people

1329
01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:43,990
more than you can because as you can

1330
01:01:48,780 --> 01:01:46,360
imagine with an abduction case unlike

1331
01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:48,790
Calvin Parker years later rules made his

1332
01:01:53,610 --> 01:01:51,760
peace with things and go over it this

1333
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:53,620
was a young couple with two small boys

1334
01:02:00,030 --> 01:01:57,010
and and the wife was genuinely terrified

1335
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:00,040
and I wanted to be able to give her

1336
01:02:08,070 --> 01:02:06,490
something more than what can you say yes

1337
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:08,080
you've been abducted by a little green

1338
01:02:12,330 --> 01:02:09,610
man and they're gonna come back and do

1339
01:02:14,730 --> 01:02:12,340
it again which was the general accepted

1340
01:02:20,340 --> 01:02:14,740
thing at the time and it was like that's

1341
01:02:22,290 --> 01:02:20,350
the last thing she wants to it so there

1342
01:02:25,770 --> 01:02:22,300
are lovely people in the world of

1343
01:02:29,130 --> 01:02:25,780
ufology and there are some of the ants

1344
01:02:30,690 --> 01:02:29,140
as well but as I said earlier this on

1345
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:30,700
the subject unfortunately like

1346
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:33,970
everywhere else brings people in from

1347
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:36,730
all walks of life yeah I mean I mean

1348
01:02:42,090 --> 01:02:39,280
I'll make no bones about it the guy who

1349
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:42,100
probably influenced me the most he's

1350
01:02:48,510 --> 01:02:43,930
rarely mentioned now chap called Hillary

1351
01:02:50,970 --> 01:02:48,520
Evans Hillary and his wife opened around

1352
01:02:51,780 --> 01:02:50,980
the Mary Evans picture library amongst

1353
01:02:54,420 --> 01:02:51,790
other things

1354
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:54,430
Hillary was an author on all all things

1355
01:03:00,840 --> 01:02:57,250
sort of fourteen really not just UFOs

1356
01:03:05,490 --> 01:03:00,850
and I just thought it was a you know a

1357
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:07,290
influence omit but suddenly you know

1358
01:03:13,620 --> 01:03:09,250
he's long since gone he was a big

1359
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:13,630
supporter of UFO research wasn't that

1360
01:03:18,750 --> 01:03:16,210
you know al fey with with the abduction

1361
01:03:22,830 --> 01:03:18,760
side of things but it was still in those

1362
01:03:26,010 --> 01:03:22,840
days gaining momentum and like Wallace

1363
01:03:28,290 --> 01:03:26,020
just said you know I feel fortunate to

1364
01:03:33,180 --> 01:03:28,300
have met most of these people including

1365
01:03:36,690 --> 01:03:33,190
bud bud bud buds voice has actually been

1366
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:36,700
in my ears today literally I've been

1367
01:03:44,339 --> 01:03:40,510
transcribing a hypnosis session with but

1368
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:44,349
Hopkins and and the late Charles Hickson

1369
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:47,680
and literally finished that today so I'm

1370
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:50,290
a funny sure mention but I've literally

1371
01:03:57,420 --> 01:03:54,000
had his voice in my ears today but

1372
01:04:00,540 --> 01:03:57,430
others that influenced me personally

1373
01:04:05,670 --> 01:04:00,550
were people like Jax ballet Greg

1374
01:04:07,890 --> 01:04:05,680
birds'll who were totally opposed in

1375
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:07,900
their opinions and their directions you

1376
01:04:13,859 --> 01:04:12,250
know and I remember you know buds coming

1377
01:04:15,839 --> 01:04:13,869
to stay with me in talking to him about

1378
01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:15,849
I met him at various places around the

1379
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:19,240
world and he did assist me with a couple

1380
01:04:24,780 --> 01:04:23,170
of things that I worked on so you know I

1381
01:04:27,300 --> 01:04:24,790
think all these people have an influence

1382
01:04:29,550 --> 01:04:27,310
on you on you whether you recognize it

1383
01:04:33,599 --> 01:04:29,560
and on of course Jenny Randall's was it

1384
01:04:36,450 --> 01:04:33,609
was an influence in the early days and a

1385
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:36,460
great many others that you know I could

1386
01:04:43,260 --> 01:04:40,330
go on forever and mention them but one

1387
01:04:46,380 --> 01:04:43,270
of the things I'd like to ask Paul is

1388
01:04:49,740 --> 01:04:46,390
that a mentions UFOs and the paranormal

1389
01:04:51,839 --> 01:04:49,750
now there are still even today those

1390
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:51,849
that would say that these two things are

1391
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:55,599
totally separate and that they you know

1392
01:04:59,640 --> 01:04:57,760
should not be mixed in together one of

1393
01:05:02,609 --> 01:04:59,650
those that will follow up that path was

1394
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:02,619
put Hopkins pod called its tube what

1395
01:05:09,210 --> 01:05:06,730
thinking for example you know so you

1396
01:05:10,890 --> 01:05:09,220
know what's your opinion on that Paul

1397
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:10,900
because you've mentioned it in your book

1398
01:05:15,540 --> 01:05:13,210
there's there's rules and the paranormal

1399
01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:15,550
yeah well it's not something I went

1400
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:16,750
looking for it it just happened but

1401
01:05:20,700 --> 01:05:19,210
anyway just going

1402
01:05:24,299 --> 01:05:20,710
just to touch on the other thing but it

1403
01:05:26,250 --> 01:05:24,309
covers both when I was a teenager I had

1404
01:05:29,010 --> 01:05:26,260
an uncle who was in a Natyam senior

1405
01:05:31,049 --> 01:05:29,020
fellow group and he came and asked my

1406
01:05:33,390 --> 01:05:31,059
parents I'm going down to a meeting down

1407
01:05:35,490 --> 01:05:33,400
in Warminster can I take Paul with me

1408
01:05:37,770 --> 01:05:35,500
for the weekend and thank God they said

1409
01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:37,780
yes so I just got in this old reliant

1410
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:40,809
regal bomber god help me went from one

1411
01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:41,710
end of the country to the other

1412
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:44,950
overnight and was in time to meet this

1413
01:05:51,299 --> 01:05:47,440
group of people with the chauffeur would

1414
01:05:54,420 --> 01:05:51,309
in Warminster where we went to clay Hill

1415
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:54,430
one night looking for UFOs and then we

1416
01:05:59,280 --> 01:05:56,770
went to Cradle Hill on the second night

1417
01:06:02,130 --> 01:05:59,290
and we saw some unexplained lights on

1418
01:06:04,290 --> 01:06:02,140
both nights but one of the things that

1419
01:06:07,170 --> 01:06:04,300
are the shuttle would said to me well we

1420
01:06:10,230 --> 01:06:07,180
just sat rather stood talking on the top

1421
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:10,240
of Plato Hill and we stood there then he

1422
01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:13,530
says do you know he says I was once at

1423
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:16,390
Stonehenge because my uncle and I had

1424
01:06:20,370 --> 01:06:18,490
just been to Stonehenge during the day

1425
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:20,380
nothing happening so he says we'll go

1426
01:06:25,170 --> 01:06:22,089
and in those days you could walk right

1427
01:06:26,970 --> 01:06:25,180
up to the stones and touch them and I've

1428
01:06:29,309 --> 01:06:26,980
just been telling Arthur and he said I

1429
01:06:31,559 --> 01:06:29,319
went down there not long ago and he says

1430
01:06:34,289 --> 01:06:31,569
we'd seen something in this guy a blue

1431
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:34,299
light he says and I walked away from the

1432
01:06:38,819 --> 01:06:36,970
stones and out towards the heel stone he

1433
01:06:41,010 --> 01:06:38,829
says when I walked towards the heel

1434
01:06:42,809 --> 01:06:41,020
stone he says and I've got it we're in

1435
01:06:45,569 --> 01:06:42,819
my back he says so I was leaning on it

1436
01:06:47,339 --> 01:06:45,579
looking back towards the hinge and he

1437
01:06:49,319 --> 01:06:47,349
says and as I put my head back on the

1438
01:06:51,660 --> 01:06:49,329
stone he said I got this beautiful

1439
01:06:54,089 --> 01:06:51,670
musical note that seemed to be coming

1440
01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:54,099
from the heel stone I'm going up through

1441
01:07:00,960 --> 01:06:57,730
me looking to the sky and he said that

1442
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:00,970
there was a lot more tour then I say

1443
01:07:06,839 --> 01:07:02,650
these frequencies

1444
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:06,849
II call them vibrations and one of the

1445
01:07:10,109 --> 01:07:08,319
things that would you believe a

1446
01:07:12,539 --> 01:07:10,119
spiritualist now Malcolm Robinson to be

1447
01:07:15,299 --> 01:07:12,549
on this one a spiritualist medium said

1448
01:07:17,579 --> 01:07:15,309
to me now this guy I didn't know I was

1449
01:07:19,799 --> 01:07:17,589
just walking along and he stood outside

1450
01:07:22,380 --> 01:07:19,809
this building which was the local

1451
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:22,390
spiritualist Church not as a teenager of

1452
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:24,880
mana was interested in the slightest but

1453
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:27,130
as I walked past he shouted me and

1454
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:28,690
called me over by name and he says boy

1455
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:29,440
what do you got a minute

1456
01:07:34,540 --> 01:07:32,330
and it was like how does he know me

1457
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:34,550
and I went over to him and he says I've

1458
01:07:39,490 --> 01:07:37,130
been told to show you something oh yes

1459
01:07:42,700 --> 01:07:39,500
I've heard about people like this anyway

1460
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:42,710
yes sir yes of people be scrapped obey

1461
01:07:46,540 --> 01:07:44,330
but I would bogey and you write

1462
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:46,550
something on it and then he shows me and

1463
01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:49,280
he just written you were four and he

1464
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:51,860
says I've just been told by spirit to

1465
01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:53,690
say that you're thinking along the right

1466
01:08:05,710 --> 01:08:01,780
in my life in his telling Denise I mean

1467
01:08:07,420 --> 01:08:05,720
as a as a teenager I was an avid reader

1468
01:08:09,490 --> 01:08:07,430
I read all thus one of the other things

1469
01:08:11,110 --> 01:08:09,500
as Phillip said Jenny Randall I think I

1470
01:08:13,150 --> 01:08:11,120
read every book that she ever published

1471
01:08:16,420 --> 01:08:13,160
Jacques Vallee there was Leonard

1472
01:08:18,910 --> 01:08:16,430
Stringfield Donald Kehoe all the old

1473
01:08:22,599 --> 01:08:18,920
writers and I must have read every book

1474
01:08:26,730 --> 01:08:22,609
twice yeah and it was those that sort of

1475
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:26,740
influenced yeah and I think as part of

1476
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:30,290
passport time ago nearby the Lea and

1477
01:08:34,660 --> 01:08:32,270
some of these others are then talking to

1478
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:34,670
our event the spiritual connection but

1479
01:08:39,970 --> 01:08:36,799
this other guy and it was like there's a

1480
01:08:41,559 --> 01:08:39,980
lot more to this then it's not just the

1481
01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:41,569
nuts and bolts and the physics of it

1482
01:08:45,309 --> 01:08:43,310
he's a lot deepen and there's a lot more

1483
01:08:48,340 --> 01:08:45,319
to it than we would be led to believe

1484
01:08:51,610 --> 01:08:48,350
you know I mean I'm an old Arthur Shaw

1485
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:51,620
one creator lil I was there with it with

1486
01:08:56,829 --> 01:08:54,560
a friend of mine with no idea what we

1487
01:09:00,250 --> 01:08:56,839
were doing we just managed to find him

1488
01:09:01,900 --> 01:09:00,260
you know and I don't know it was dark

1489
01:09:03,460 --> 01:09:01,910
out of couldn't tell you what time it

1490
01:09:06,910 --> 01:09:03,470
was and they said oh boy come wandering

1491
01:09:09,340 --> 01:09:06,920
along Alice I can't my body said now and

1492
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:09,350
off he went we'd no idea to it worried

1493
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:11,450
so on it was only some time later that I

1494
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:13,010
saw a picture of Arthur I think it was

1495
01:09:17,019 --> 01:09:14,960
in one of his books and I said to my

1496
01:09:18,610 --> 01:09:17,029
partner oh boy we met upon create a

1497
01:09:21,099 --> 01:09:18,620
little that night and it whoa

1498
01:09:22,510 --> 01:09:21,109
and you know I call responded with him

1499
01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:22,520
after that down the years well that was

1500
01:09:26,860 --> 01:09:24,319
the only time you know it didn't say I'm

1501
01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,870
after sure he just said I think he acid

1502
01:09:29,980 --> 01:09:28,400
if we'd seen anything you know cuz he

1503
01:09:31,690 --> 01:09:29,990
pretty obvious what we're doing

1504
01:09:33,250 --> 01:09:31,700
study in middle of nowhere but a pair of

1505
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:33,260
binoculars in the dark you know what I

1506
01:09:40,930 --> 01:09:36,290
mean but I turned this around on you

1507
01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:40,940
Chris who was sort of your influence in

1508
01:09:45,789 --> 01:09:43,790
in in ufology when you first became

1509
01:09:50,590 --> 01:09:45,799
interested

1510
01:09:52,420 --> 01:09:50,600
early 70s roundabout 1974 I know we've

1511
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:52,430
discussed my experience before filled

1512
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:53,839
with the strange lights moving across

1513
01:09:58,600 --> 01:09:56,690
the sky but just slightly before that

1514
01:10:00,370 --> 01:09:58,610
the person that influenced me was

1515
01:10:02,860 --> 01:10:00,380
somebody who will not be known his name

1516
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:02,870
was Jeffrey McCann it was actually my

1517
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:05,600
uncle and him he had a load of books and

1518
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:07,310
L staying at his house hours reading

1519
01:10:12,370 --> 01:10:09,590
some of the books ghost stories and you

1520
01:10:14,230 --> 01:10:12,380
know real-life ghost stories etc etc but

1521
01:10:17,290 --> 01:10:14,240
one side may experience with this

1522
01:10:20,140 --> 01:10:17,300
unusual light again probably like

1523
01:10:22,300 --> 01:10:20,150
yourself and like Paul major donkey her

1524
01:10:24,580 --> 01:10:22,310
and read plenty of other books he

1525
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:24,590
brought out after shuttle would read

1526
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:26,210
many of his books about the warminster

1527
01:10:32,130 --> 01:10:30,080
thing people like Desmond Leslie and you

1528
01:10:34,650 --> 01:10:32,140
know it read his books as well and

1529
01:10:38,290 --> 01:10:34,660
coming forward that you know up to

1530
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:38,300
should we say the modern era and people

1531
01:10:47,050 --> 01:10:42,320
like got his name philip mantofa that's

1532
01:10:48,670 --> 01:10:47,060
him people like Philippe little people

1533
01:10:52,210 --> 01:10:48,680
like philip mantle and the work he's

1534
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:52,220
done the Paul Sinclair mm-hm and you

1535
01:10:55,510 --> 01:10:54,170
know there are many in John Hanson as

1536
01:10:57,250 --> 01:10:55,520
well it was already been mentioned you

1537
01:10:59,350 --> 01:10:57,260
know I haven't actually read any of

1538
01:11:02,350 --> 01:10:59,360
John's books but we had him when we had

1539
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:02,360
him to speak at the conference a couple

1540
01:11:06,730 --> 01:11:04,130
of years ago when he was given the first

1541
01:11:08,380 --> 01:11:06,740
at least magazine award a chat with him

1542
01:11:10,090 --> 01:11:08,390
there and some of the things he was

1543
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:10,100
telling me were fascinating

1544
01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:12,170
absolutely man glowing bits of

1545
01:11:16,480 --> 01:11:13,880
information that he contains in that

1546
01:11:19,710 --> 01:11:16,490
head of his where does he story oh you

1547
01:11:22,750 --> 01:11:19,720
know em so it's people like that and

1548
01:11:24,730 --> 01:11:22,760
people who have looked at both sides of

1549
01:11:27,610 --> 01:11:24,740
the argument the you th's and the Nonnie

1550
01:11:29,260 --> 01:11:27,620
th's and and so on you know an ab still

1551
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:29,270
can't like stuck in the middle of that

1552
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:32,270
and i'm looking for answers again which

1553
01:11:35,470 --> 01:11:33,920
is why I bring up well Limits magazine

1554
01:11:38,050 --> 01:11:35,480
itself because you know giving people

1555
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:38,060
both sides of the argument equal scoop

1556
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:40,400
to publish well I'm like Paul those are

1557
01:11:45,190 --> 01:11:41,570
the people that influence you know my

1558
01:11:46,810 --> 01:11:45,200
opinions you know forever changing just

1559
01:11:49,210 --> 01:11:46,820
think you think you know you know you're

1560
01:11:51,820 --> 01:11:49,220
on the straight and narrow eating of mom

1561
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:51,830
I've clicked it yeah I've got it here

1562
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:53,930
and then something will happen or you'll

1563
01:11:57,940 --> 01:11:55,610
read something and then it throws you

1564
01:11:59,080 --> 01:11:57,950
into a spin again but I was also

1565
01:12:01,479 --> 01:11:59,090
influenced by

1566
01:12:04,629 --> 01:12:01,489
erich von daniken and his book Chariots

1567
01:12:06,129 --> 01:12:04,639
of the Gods now you know I remember

1568
01:12:08,729 --> 01:12:06,139
reading it and I'm we're you know was

1569
01:12:11,589 --> 01:12:08,739
fascinated by it and I was fortunate to

1570
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:11,599
meet him many years later but a

1571
01:12:16,569 --> 01:12:13,610
conference I was speaking out in Vienna

1572
01:12:19,779 --> 01:12:16,579
and we added dinner together not just me

1573
01:12:22,990 --> 01:12:19,789
and him all the speakers and I had a

1574
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:23,000
chat with him then but I know if you

1575
01:12:26,589 --> 01:12:24,250
look back at Chariots of the Gods

1576
01:12:29,049 --> 01:12:26,599
probably a lot of the artifacts that he

1577
01:12:31,299 --> 01:12:29,059
mentions all her now have a you know an

1578
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:31,309
earthly explanation but I think what the

1579
01:12:37,839 --> 01:12:36,320
book did was to say you know question

1580
01:12:41,049 --> 01:12:37,849
things don't accept everything you're

1581
01:12:43,089 --> 01:12:41,059
told and that always remained with me

1582
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:43,099
and I think that's the overriding sort

1583
01:12:48,100 --> 01:12:44,480
of theme of the book is to question

1584
01:12:50,020 --> 01:12:48,110
things and it's like Paul was talking

1585
01:12:53,290 --> 01:12:50,030
about what where we are with ufology

1586
01:12:56,740 --> 01:12:53,300
today personal and I've said this on

1587
01:13:00,250 --> 01:12:56,750
several occasions as a UFO researchers

1588
01:13:01,870 --> 01:13:00,260
stroke investigator I look upon part of

1589
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:01,880
the role has been someone who will

1590
01:13:09,939 --> 01:13:06,170
document the evidence and preserve it

1591
01:13:12,370 --> 01:13:09,949
for posterity in the hope that somebody

1592
01:13:15,970 --> 01:13:12,380
at some point will be able to make sense

1593
01:13:18,910 --> 01:13:15,980
of it and will come to a definitive

1594
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:18,920
conclusion and a lot of people are

1595
01:13:24,310 --> 01:13:20,960
thinking you're talking nonsense this is

1596
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:24,320
just modern folklore and in you know 100

1597
01:13:29,169 --> 01:13:26,090
years time hundred and fifty years time

1598
01:13:32,970 --> 01:13:29,179
people will look back on ufology and

1599
01:13:36,879 --> 01:13:32,980
with a smile as we today look back on

1600
01:13:39,970 --> 01:13:36,889
sightings of fairies 158 two hundred

1601
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:39,980
years ago you know are we now consider

1602
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:43,730
that folklore whereas you know for

1603
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:46,130
example my mom god bless her she's no

1604
01:13:50,919 --> 01:13:48,010
longer with us but she came from rural

1605
01:13:54,609 --> 01:13:50,929
Northern Ireland when she was young and

1606
01:13:56,319 --> 01:13:54,619
she told me when she was a child she met

1607
01:14:00,549 --> 01:13:56,329
a fairy by the stream on the family

1608
01:14:02,649 --> 01:14:00,559
lived up and it was real physical you

1609
01:14:05,740 --> 01:14:02,659
know pretty close and wings and she just

1610
01:14:07,450 --> 01:14:05,750
she had a conversation with it and she

1611
01:14:09,250 --> 01:14:07,460
not only told me that she told my

1612
01:14:11,049 --> 01:14:09,260
children that story and I asked her many

1613
01:14:12,970 --> 01:14:11,059
times you know was it was it real mom

1614
01:14:16,030 --> 01:14:12,980
didn't she says he it was

1615
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:16,040
to me something now you know that was it

1616
01:14:20,290 --> 01:14:18,170
but we now look upon reporters that as

1617
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:20,300
preposterous you know it was myth and

1618
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:24,320
myth you know mythology and folklore so

1619
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:27,920
yeah I think so you know it so will that

1620
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:32,320
happen to us you know basically you know

1621
01:14:36,700 --> 01:14:34,730
I've heard somebody quote I think it

1622
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:36,710
might have even been Andy Roberts god

1623
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:40,880
bless him you know I mean Andy Andy is a

1624
01:14:45,670 --> 01:14:43,850
well-known skeptic but he's not a bad

1625
01:14:48,820 --> 01:14:45,680
fellow at the end of the day me and Andy

1626
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:48,830
have been friends for many years and and

1627
01:14:54,610 --> 01:14:51,710
dr. Clark and I knew dr. Clark long

1628
01:15:02,620 --> 01:14:54,620
before he was a doctor but what they've

1629
01:15:04,570 --> 01:15:02,630
said in it but you know I say 150 years

1630
01:15:06,430 --> 01:15:04,580
from now obviously mostly won't be here

1631
01:15:09,340 --> 01:15:06,440
but we'll the scholars of the day be

1632
01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:09,350
looking back at your magazine Chris at

1633
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:12,920
Paul's book or any of my books and class

1634
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:16,210
that as as as folklore and mythology

1635
01:15:20,440 --> 01:15:18,800
quite possibly well that possibly I'll

1636
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:20,450
just before you tell us the story about

1637
01:15:25,900 --> 01:15:24,170
dr. Clark err I wanted to do is I didn't

1638
01:15:28,420 --> 01:15:25,910
mention Erich von Daniken even though I

1639
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:28,430
did read many of these publications back

1640
01:15:33,300 --> 01:15:30,650
in the 70s now the reason I didn't

1641
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:33,310
mention him is because there's a lot of

1642
01:15:38,410 --> 01:15:36,560
controversy now surrounding him and you

1643
01:15:41,260 --> 01:15:38,420
know a lot of people are suggesting that

1644
01:15:43,780 --> 01:15:41,270
he still ideas for his chariot the gods

1645
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:43,790
from the French author Robert is it yeah

1646
01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:47,450
you know and a 2004 article I think it

1647
01:15:52,180 --> 01:15:49,490
was in skeptic magazine they stated that

1648
01:15:53,650 --> 01:15:52,190
he plagiarized many of the ideas from

1649
01:15:57,130 --> 01:15:53,660
the morning of the magician's you know

1650
01:15:59,440 --> 01:15:57,140
which another book and I do also another

1651
01:16:02,980 --> 01:15:59,450
there were other books written in German

1652
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:02,990
that I believe he also got some of his

1653
01:16:07,180 --> 01:16:04,850
ideas from nothing wrong with that

1654
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:07,190
because we all share ideas anyway but

1655
01:16:14,110 --> 01:16:11,170
one of the things M that I did found

1656
01:16:16,690 --> 01:16:14,120
interest in was one of the artifacts

1657
01:16:18,820 --> 01:16:16,700
that he offered himself in in one of his

1658
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:18,830
books has actually been disclaimed by

1659
01:16:24,940 --> 01:16:21,290
von Daniken himself he you know

1660
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:24,950
supposedly a rust-free I in India yeah

1661
01:16:28,330 --> 01:16:26,510
yeah which

1662
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:28,340
was evidence of extraterrestrial

1663
01:16:34,359 --> 01:16:32,449
influence but Daniken admitted him

1664
01:16:36,850 --> 01:16:34,369
played in a player boy in Sevilla when

1665
01:16:38,799 --> 01:16:36,860
all the magazine's to go inside it was a

1666
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:38,809
man-made pillar and that as far as

1667
01:16:42,609 --> 01:16:40,489
supporting his series girls we can

1668
01:16:44,470 --> 01:16:42,619
forget about this iron thing yeah so it

1669
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:44,480
kinda made me think but then again you

1670
01:16:47,890 --> 01:16:45,920
know this there's nothing wrong with

1671
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:47,900
people changing the matter as you know

1672
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:49,280
Phil I have done it absolutely I mean

1673
01:16:53,620 --> 01:16:51,289
you know what we have to remember about

1674
01:16:55,919 --> 01:16:53,630
Eric is he it wasn't the first to write

1675
01:16:59,709 --> 01:16:55,929
or talk about ancient astronauts

1676
01:17:02,439 --> 01:16:59,719
similarly you know Alan Hynek

1677
01:17:04,359 --> 01:17:02,449
is clusters sort of the father of modern

1678
01:17:07,149 --> 01:17:04,369
ufology but you certainly wasn't the

1679
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:07,159
first I'm not suggesting Panik

1680
01:17:08,919 --> 01:17:08,690
plagiarized anything I don't think like

1681
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:08,929
that

1682
01:17:14,109 --> 01:17:11,360
but you know with the von daniken he

1683
01:17:16,569 --> 01:17:14,119
certainly wasn't the first Bertie is

1684
01:17:19,930 --> 01:17:16,579
classed as it as the father rightfully

1685
01:17:22,379 --> 01:17:19,940
of of you know the ancient astronaut

1686
01:17:25,029 --> 01:17:22,389
theory because of his popularity and

1687
01:17:27,250 --> 01:17:25,039
like I said you know I think all of his

1688
01:17:28,750 --> 01:17:27,260
thinking that Finch Alex of the gods is

1689
01:17:31,299 --> 01:17:28,760
this is the iron pillar that you're

1690
01:17:32,319 --> 01:17:31,309
talking about all of the artifacts in

1691
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:32,329
there and have an earthly explanation

1692
01:17:38,140 --> 01:17:35,690
but I think like I said the book to me

1693
01:17:38,979 --> 01:17:38,150
wasn't necessarily about the individual

1694
01:17:40,930 --> 01:17:38,989
artifacts

1695
01:17:44,859 --> 01:17:40,940
it was just teaching you to question

1696
01:17:47,049 --> 01:17:44,869
things and he has a theory because

1697
01:17:48,700 --> 01:17:47,059
that's what it is it's a hypotheses a

1698
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:48,710
theory call it what you will

1699
01:17:54,069 --> 01:17:51,610
the ancient astronaut theory it's is

1700
01:17:56,379 --> 01:17:54,079
it's still the same today as it's ever

1701
01:17:59,350 --> 01:17:56,389
been and it's not being proven and but

1702
01:18:02,200 --> 01:17:59,360
it's just an interesting theory and if

1703
01:18:05,259 --> 01:18:02,210
we're honest it's rather nice and yeah

1704
01:18:09,069 --> 01:18:05,269
it's a rather nice way of looking at the

1705
01:18:14,069 --> 01:18:09,079
portals because you know the last place

1706
01:18:17,410 --> 01:18:14,079
I ever visited overseas was Egypt in

1707
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:17,420
2010 and with my wife and my daughter

1708
01:18:24,850 --> 01:18:21,730
and I don't believe for a moment that

1709
01:18:26,830 --> 01:18:24,860
the the pyramids and the Sphinx were

1710
01:18:29,290 --> 01:18:26,840
built by aliens but we had a guide and I

1711
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:29,300
I told him that I mean nobody never said

1712
01:18:35,649 --> 01:18:32,719
that to me you know and so I pulled his

1713
01:18:38,919 --> 01:18:35,659
leg a bit about that but you know I

1714
01:18:40,210 --> 01:18:38,929
think we underestimate our ancient

1715
01:18:45,670 --> 01:18:40,220
ancestors they

1716
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:45,680
in their abilities shall we say and but

1717
01:18:48,970 --> 01:18:47,600
it's just a nice Theory's it seen at

1718
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:48,980
least one you could never prove in a

1719
01:18:54,130 --> 01:18:50,690
thousand years no matter what you know

1720
01:18:55,570 --> 01:18:54,140
because we are all Stardust there's

1721
01:19:00,180 --> 01:18:55,580
nothing on this earth that can't be

1722
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:00,190
found elsewhere you know so but yeah

1723
01:19:05,470 --> 01:19:02,450
like I said I'm a I'm a erich von

1724
01:19:08,860 --> 01:19:05,480
daniken a conference a lecture dying in

1725
01:19:11,980 --> 01:19:08,870
Vienna in Austria many years back and it

1726
01:19:14,620 --> 01:19:11,990
was just a nice guy yeah you know that's

1727
01:19:17,290 --> 01:19:14,630
all I can say about him weird it was it

1728
01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:17,300
was the opening speaker and then off he

1729
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:18,710
went but we had dinner the night before

1730
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:24,320
and I think he's got a big influence on

1731
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,250
a lot of people you need to be honest

1732
01:19:32,350 --> 01:19:29,840
I've got to say he certainly came over

1733
01:19:34,180 --> 01:19:32,360
like I was at Awakening last year and he

1734
01:19:36,430 --> 01:19:34,190
spoke there and it certainly came all of

1735
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:36,440
it's a very very nice gentleman you know

1736
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:38,690
and what I've said was in being critical

1737
01:19:42,940 --> 01:19:40,970
of him it just made me think slightly

1738
01:19:44,620 --> 01:19:42,950
different of him you know and some of

1739
01:19:46,090 --> 01:19:44,630
the things that I put forward yeah

1740
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:46,100
you're right Felice it was having it

1741
01:19:50,230 --> 01:19:48,290
really who's teaching me to look at

1742
01:19:52,990 --> 01:19:50,240
things a little bit deeper but even so

1743
01:19:54,730 --> 01:19:53,000
very very interesting pieces that he put

1744
01:19:58,750 --> 01:19:54,740
anything in his books he's many more

1745
01:20:01,600 --> 01:19:58,760
yeah well I'll go back to dr. Clark's

1746
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:01,610
y'all way now because one of the things

1747
01:20:07,450 --> 01:20:03,770
that's that's haunted me from the day I

1748
01:20:09,370 --> 01:20:07,460
got involved with it is the infamous

1749
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:09,380
alien autopsy film hoax

1750
01:20:20,020 --> 01:20:14,690
now about just over a month ago an 11

1751
01:20:23,370 --> 01:20:20,030
page memo was leaked and the memo was

1752
01:20:25,540 --> 01:20:23,380
written by a chap called Eric Davis

1753
01:20:27,460 --> 01:20:25,550
various people are copied in on this

1754
01:20:31,330 --> 01:20:27,470
memo see series of sort of emails have

1755
01:20:34,810 --> 01:20:31,340
been put together how put off is one to

1756
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:34,820
comp Kelleher and it's basically a

1757
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:40,930
summary of a claims made by a dr.

1758
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:45,290
Christopher kick green kick green did

1759
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:47,510
work for the CIA on their what we would

1760
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:49,850
call their we're desk all that there was

1761
01:20:53,389 --> 01:20:52,610
only a small part of his work I've since

1762
01:20:57,649 --> 01:20:53,399
found out

1763
01:20:59,719 --> 01:20:57,659
and he's an md/phd I think he runs run

1764
01:21:02,959 --> 01:20:59,729
still runs a medical practice in the

1765
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:02,969
United States now in this this 11 page

1766
01:21:09,619 --> 01:21:05,489
memo even yours truly is it gets a brief

1767
01:21:13,449 --> 01:21:09,629
mention but there's a couple of things

1768
01:21:16,669 --> 01:21:13,459
dr. Greene says there in 1987 so Katie a

1769
01:21:19,839 --> 01:21:16,679
that the Pentagon II was briefed and he

1770
01:21:23,089 --> 01:21:19,849
was shown an a file on an alien autopsy

1771
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:23,099
and that the creature in that file was

1772
01:21:30,409 --> 01:21:27,090
exactly the same as you see in the film

1773
01:21:33,020 --> 01:21:30,419
released in 1995 a bearing Santilli so

1774
01:21:34,609 --> 01:21:33,030
the seven or eight years apart but he

1775
01:21:37,219 --> 01:21:34,619
kind of seen the same thing because it

1776
01:21:41,179 --> 01:21:37,229
wasn't conceived and designed and made

1777
01:21:43,339 --> 01:21:41,189
until 1995 so I think he's since gone on

1778
01:21:44,859 --> 01:21:43,349
to say what the CIA must have lied to

1779
01:21:49,339 --> 01:21:44,869
him but that that doesn't actually

1780
01:21:54,919 --> 01:21:49,349
explain that but then later on in this

1781
01:21:59,629 --> 01:21:54,929
same memo he then gives his own medical

1782
01:22:02,659 --> 01:21:59,639
opinion of what he sees in the Santilli

1783
01:22:06,049 --> 01:22:02,669
alien autopsy film so it gives a medical

1784
01:22:07,459 --> 01:22:06,059
opinion of it and he's - you know and

1785
01:22:09,939 --> 01:22:07,469
he's talking about the heart and the

1786
01:22:12,500 --> 01:22:09,949
brain well the you know as we all know

1787
01:22:14,569 --> 01:22:12,510
it's a fake it was actually made by

1788
01:22:17,299 --> 01:22:14,579
Spiros malarious and a small team that

1789
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:17,309
worked under him the brain for example

1790
01:22:23,239 --> 01:22:19,050
in the creature he's two sheeps brains

1791
01:22:25,609 --> 01:22:23,249
putting in strawberry jelly you know and

1792
01:22:29,330 --> 01:22:25,619
the various organs that come out are

1793
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:29,340
awful from the butchers so I'd like to

1794
01:22:34,459 --> 01:22:32,010
know why you know a guy who worked at

1795
01:22:37,069 --> 01:22:34,469
the CIA still runs a medical practice

1796
01:22:39,199 --> 01:22:37,079
and as an MD in a PhD couldn't Rick

1797
01:22:42,609 --> 01:22:39,209
recognize that you know these were

1798
01:22:45,379 --> 01:22:42,619
giblets basically you know so who

1799
01:22:46,850 --> 01:22:45,389
Richard Dolan and from the US has been

1800
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:46,860
in touch with him and it's got an

1801
01:22:50,779 --> 01:22:48,840
interview with him but first he said he

1802
01:22:54,679 --> 01:22:50,789
was gonna release now he can't so he's

1803
01:22:59,060 --> 01:22:54,689
going to write it up as an article so

1804
01:23:01,580 --> 01:22:59,070
you know we'll see but beware dr. David

1805
01:23:03,889 --> 01:23:01,590
Clark comes in David's a long long time

1806
01:23:06,529 --> 01:23:03,899
UFO investigator people forget this

1807
01:23:07,399 --> 01:23:06,539
David was investigating UFOs when he was

1808
01:23:09,530 --> 01:23:07,409
a teenager

1809
01:23:13,550 --> 01:23:09,540
and I mean investigator I mean going out

1810
01:23:20,780 --> 01:23:13,560
knocking on doors talking to people a

1811
01:23:22,820 --> 01:23:20,790
long history in in folklore and so we

1812
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:22,830
got he's David had a degree in

1813
01:23:27,919 --> 01:23:25,530
archaeology he then became a journalist

1814
01:23:30,140 --> 01:23:27,929
took a journalist course and he worked

1815
01:23:32,810 --> 01:23:30,150
on the Sheffield stab its from Sheffield

1816
01:23:36,410 --> 01:23:32,820
he eventually went on to take his PhD in

1817
01:23:38,419 --> 01:23:36,420
folklore and he now he's a he teaches

1818
01:23:41,390 --> 01:23:38,429
journalism lectures on journalism at the

1819
01:23:45,979 --> 01:23:41,400
University in Sheffield but David is a

1820
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:45,989
well-known skeptic certainly about the

1821
01:23:51,770 --> 01:23:49,050
extra-terrestrial hypotheses pretty much

1822
01:23:55,399 --> 01:23:51,780
UFOs in general but it's a nice skeptic

1823
01:24:00,560 --> 01:23:55,409
if you know what I mean but I kind of

1824
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:00,570
ironic that back in 1995 when David was

1825
01:24:04,850 --> 01:24:02,250
working at the Sheffield style he

1826
01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:04,860
contacted me in Issa's Philip I'm doing

1827
01:24:09,709 --> 01:24:06,900
an article about a local lad he's

1828
01:24:11,570 --> 01:24:09,719
starting as a UFO investigator now he

1829
01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:11,580
says I know you've got a conference

1830
01:24:15,620 --> 01:24:13,199
coming up in Sheffield later this year

1831
01:24:17,780 --> 01:24:15,630
give us a comment about that and I'll do

1832
01:24:20,540 --> 01:24:17,790
a larger article somewhat near at the

1833
01:24:22,010 --> 01:24:20,550
time so I mentioned to him all the

1834
01:24:24,379 --> 01:24:22,020
speakers I mean at that conference

1835
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:24,389
people forget this is the one that we

1836
01:24:29,689 --> 01:24:27,210
eventually showed the alien autopsy film

1837
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:29,699
in public for the first time but we we

1838
01:24:34,189 --> 01:24:32,040
got two Russian scientists on the bill

1839
01:24:35,750 --> 01:24:34,199
and various other people from around the

1840
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:35,760
world and I just gave an off-the-cuff

1841
01:24:41,930 --> 01:24:39,330
Oh a lien autopsy so David printed it

1842
01:24:43,669 --> 01:24:41,940
I've never seen it and then a few days

1843
01:24:46,700 --> 01:24:43,679
after it went out in the Sheffield star

1844
01:24:49,250 --> 01:24:46,710
I was contacted by a company called

1845
01:24:51,290 --> 01:24:49,260
White's a press agency and all they were

1846
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:51,300
interested in was the alien autopsy Mike

1847
01:24:56,330 --> 01:24:54,449
Mike had given him to David so all I

1848
01:24:57,979 --> 01:24:56,340
could tell them was what race until he

1849
01:24:59,899 --> 01:24:57,989
had been quoting to me

1850
01:25:01,010 --> 01:24:59,909
and I told him a story of what he

1851
01:25:02,660 --> 01:25:01,020
alleged Lex

1852
01:25:05,899 --> 01:25:02,670
you know I never thought not nothing a

1853
01:25:08,180 --> 01:25:05,909
Maui the next day you know things went

1854
01:25:10,100 --> 01:25:08,190
absolutely bananas it up put this out on

1855
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:10,110
the wire service I was getting faxes

1856
01:25:14,270 --> 01:25:12,690
from Australia and all four corners of

1857
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:14,280
the globe it went bananas

1858
01:25:18,649 --> 01:25:16,800
and I passed most of them on to race

1859
01:25:20,660 --> 01:25:18,659
until they come find ray because it just

1860
01:25:22,910 --> 01:25:20,670
said London businessman

1861
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:22,920
Ray Santilli didn't tell no name of his

1862
01:25:27,500 --> 01:25:25,440
business but Philip mantle and Battley

1863
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:27,510
we could find me in the phone book you

1864
01:25:34,670 --> 01:25:30,480
know so I mean the phone never stopped

1865
01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:34,680
so at that point in time this was

1866
01:25:40,300 --> 01:25:35,760
probably I don't know

1867
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:40,310
late April 1995 somewhere around there

1868
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:43,410
Santilli had only planned to release the

1869
01:25:48,430 --> 01:25:45,840
film on video his own little video that

1870
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:48,440
he'd made his own little documentary

1871
01:25:56,150 --> 01:25:52,530
which I worked on for him but because of

1872
01:25:58,610 --> 01:25:56,160
all the publicity that it received its

1873
01:26:01,340 --> 01:25:58,620
dust when the television became involved

1874
01:26:04,330 --> 01:26:01,350
so I found it fine of kind of an ironic

1875
01:26:06,770 --> 01:26:04,340
dr. Damon Clarke as he is now very

1876
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:06,780
skeptical UFO research it was

1877
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:09,090
responsible for letting the cat out of

1878
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:18,000
the bag you know so it's I mean the

1879
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:20,310
autopsy film took on a life of its own

1880
01:26:27,140 --> 01:26:23,450
Krish it really did it snowballed and

1881
01:26:27,950 --> 01:26:27,150
nobody but nobody especially Ray

1882
01:26:30,670 --> 01:26:27,960
Santilli

1883
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:30,680
I had any idea what was gonna happen and

1884
01:26:36,020 --> 01:26:33,570
in the end Ray had to hire a guy called

1885
01:26:38,060 --> 01:26:36,030
Chris Kerry Chris was apparently

1886
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:38,070
well-known in the film and television

1887
01:26:44,300 --> 01:26:42,210
industry well-respected and Chris went

1888
01:26:47,690 --> 01:26:44,310
and negotiated a lot of the contracts

1889
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:47,700
and and he's the only one out of those

1890
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:50,040
that were involved in it right right

1891
01:26:54,020 --> 01:26:52,080
from the beginning that I've never

1892
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:54,030
managed to get an interview with I met

1893
01:26:58,700 --> 01:26:55,610
him many times don't don't get me wrong

1894
01:27:00,920 --> 01:26:58,710
so I have no idea if he ever knew that

1895
01:27:03,650 --> 01:27:00,930
the film was a fake or not I suspect he

1896
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:03,660
does but it's only a suspicion I don't

1897
01:27:08,540 --> 01:27:06,090
know for certain and I tracked him down

1898
01:27:11,660 --> 01:27:08,550
a few years back when he was working at

1899
01:27:15,020 --> 01:27:11,670
a company in London and they actually

1900
01:27:18,530 --> 01:27:15,030
made you know you know the 3d cameras

1901
01:27:21,110 --> 01:27:18,540
still the 3d movies it worked a company

1902
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,120
selling those and I left messages for

1903
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:23,040
him and I roped it but I didn't get a

1904
01:27:27,230 --> 01:27:25,380
reply so I just left it at that I wasn't

1905
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,240
gonna I'm gonna hound the man if he

1906
01:27:30,830 --> 01:27:29,280
didn't want to speak but I'd love to get

1907
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:30,840
an interview with him I would love to

1908
01:27:34,250 --> 01:27:33,690
just to ask him you know did you know

1909
01:27:35,810 --> 01:27:34,260
or

1910
01:27:37,670 --> 01:27:35,820
what point did you know that the film

1911
01:27:40,370 --> 01:27:37,680
was a fake and just to see what he had

1912
01:27:42,530 --> 01:27:40,380
to say so it would be interested to get

1913
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:42,540
you know on the record yeah yep so like

1914
01:27:47,750 --> 01:27:45,450
I said with coming full circle and now

1915
01:27:49,729 --> 01:27:47,760
we have these leaked documents it's

1916
01:27:52,430 --> 01:27:49,739
looking like there may be authentic I

1917
01:27:54,260 --> 01:27:52,440
don't know a hundred percent certain

1918
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:54,270
there's one of the gentleman named in

1919
01:28:00,710 --> 01:27:57,120
the documents I won't go I won't say his

1920
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:00,720
name in public but I contacted him and

1921
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:02,370
that's things that could what I asked

1922
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:04,530
him was are these authentic he said off

1923
01:28:09,620 --> 01:28:06,810
the record they are so I have no reason

1924
01:28:12,470 --> 01:28:09,630
to doubt him he steamed but he went on

1925
01:28:14,630 --> 01:28:12,480
to say we've we've reversed our comments

1926
01:28:17,060 --> 01:28:14,640
since then so you know they no longer

1927
01:28:19,190 --> 01:28:17,070
believe the alien autopsy film was real

1928
01:28:22,100 --> 01:28:19,200
it I got the impression it would kind of

1929
01:28:25,550 --> 01:28:22,110
embarrassed that this leak had occurred

1930
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:25,560
you know yeah and of course like I said

1931
01:28:32,660 --> 01:28:30,210
I'm mentioning him very briefly and the

1932
01:28:34,580 --> 01:28:32,670
annex course you know a few Rory yet

1933
01:28:36,440 --> 01:28:34,590
again yeah I've heard Gary she'll feel

1934
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:36,450
which is race until his business partner

1935
01:28:40,220 --> 01:28:38,610
he lives in America I've heard him being

1936
01:28:41,450 --> 01:28:40,230
interviewed taught the biggest Lola

1937
01:28:43,550 --> 01:28:41,460
tripe I've ever heard

1938
01:28:47,180 --> 01:28:43,560
you know I've heard race until he go on

1939
01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:47,190
again even more tripe you know for those

1940
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:48,480
that don't know what I'm talking about

1941
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:50,250
tripe is there were another word of

1942
01:28:54,140 --> 01:28:52,650
saying rubbish you know we don't it did

1943
01:28:55,850 --> 01:28:54,150
to say tripe anywhere outside of

1944
01:29:01,820 --> 01:28:55,860
Yorkshire did they use that phrase I

1945
01:29:06,050 --> 01:29:01,830
don't know tripe is actually it's the

1946
01:29:08,750 --> 01:29:06,060
lining of a cow's tripe oh no I don't

1947
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:08,760
know if you use it anywhere else but you

1948
01:29:13,550 --> 01:29:12,090
know again raised raised his head I've

1949
01:29:15,490 --> 01:29:13,560
heard on the grapevine that they were

1950
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:15,500
trying to get another documentary made

1951
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:17,850
well could look to the mill but the same

1952
01:29:22,010 --> 01:29:19,770
old Tosh you know people are thinking

1953
01:29:24,020 --> 01:29:22,020
the reinventing the wheel that raised

1954
01:29:26,210 --> 01:29:24,030
gonna give them a bit of film to analyze

1955
01:29:28,340 --> 01:29:26,220
well you know dream on it's not going to

1956
01:29:30,860 --> 01:29:28,350
happen because there's no film exists

1957
01:29:32,510 --> 01:29:30,870
you know I think it's quite appropriate

1958
01:29:34,970 --> 01:29:32,520
feel like you're calling it tripe

1959
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:34,980
because to me it's just race aunt Tilly

1960
01:29:39,500 --> 01:29:37,440
jumping on the cash cow again so you

1961
01:29:42,860 --> 01:29:39,510
know I think it's quite appropriate let

1962
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:42,870
you do you know I know ray I know I know

1963
01:29:46,250 --> 01:29:44,730
I know its business partner Gary

1964
01:29:47,410 --> 01:29:46,260
Schuylkill I know exactly what they're

1965
01:29:49,090 --> 01:29:47,420
like

1966
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:49,100
said to these gentlemen that were

1967
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:51,050
interviewing him and I said no

1968
01:29:55,750 --> 01:29:54,290
disrespect you're the wrong people to

1969
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:55,760
interview him and you're asking the

1970
01:29:59,410 --> 01:29:57,920
wrong questions and the reason that is

1971
01:30:02,950 --> 01:29:59,420
it because you know nothing about what

1972
01:30:05,350 --> 01:30:02,960
you're talking about you know and I said

1973
01:30:06,670 --> 01:30:05,360
I guarantee you if you just said that I

1974
01:30:08,350 --> 01:30:06,680
was going to be on there with him

1975
01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:08,360
they wouldn't they wouldn't have agreed

1976
01:30:15,820 --> 01:30:11,840
to the interview you know so and then of

1977
01:30:17,380 --> 01:30:15,830
course unfortunately I watched Linda

1978
01:30:20,620 --> 01:30:17,390
Moulton Howe talk for an hour and a half

1979
01:30:22,630 --> 01:30:20,630
about how the alien autopsy is real

1980
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:22,640
because she said one site in race until

1981
01:30:31,510 --> 01:30:28,730
his office apparently or what well you

1982
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:31,520
know I had to remove me shoelaces and me

1983
01:30:38,020 --> 01:30:36,410
belts and all sharp objects you know to

1984
01:30:43,810 --> 01:30:38,030
do when you get arrested a point in the

1985
01:30:48,460 --> 01:30:43,820
police cell you know I mean you know I

1986
01:30:50,980 --> 01:30:48,470
email said you know it's not real got no

1987
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:50,990
reply of course so what I did in my own

1988
01:30:56,350 --> 01:30:52,730
little way to try and counter all this

1989
01:31:00,520 --> 01:30:56,360
tribe was I wrote a book a few years

1990
01:31:02,830 --> 01:31:00,530
back called Roswell alien autopsy it's

1991
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:02,840
all about it tells the story right from

1992
01:31:08,020 --> 01:31:05,690
the beginning right through to finding

1993
01:31:11,380 --> 01:31:08,030
Spiros Malayalees auspice Alex I should

1994
01:31:13,180 --> 01:31:11,390
say spin-offs coming forward to us and

1995
01:31:15,460 --> 01:31:13,190
telling the whole story in between and

1996
01:31:18,340 --> 01:31:15,470
I've offered it free of charge and I've

1997
01:31:20,740 --> 01:31:18,350
sent about a hundred PDFs out maybe more

1998
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:20,750
and that will remain open if anybody

1999
01:31:27,910 --> 01:31:23,570
wants a PDF copy and know the facts they

2000
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:27,920
can have it okay the contact just just

2001
01:31:31,990 --> 01:31:30,050
punch him flying this press you know

2002
01:31:34,450 --> 01:31:32,000
I'll Google and it comes straight to me

2003
01:31:36,190 --> 01:31:34,460
on Facebook or or vile that you know

2004
01:31:39,220 --> 01:31:36,200
I've got a blog flying this press blog

2005
01:31:41,980 --> 01:31:39,230
and there's contact details on there no

2006
01:31:43,570 --> 01:31:41,990
problem and they can have a PDF copy you

2007
01:31:45,610 --> 01:31:43,580
know free of charge with the greatest of

2008
01:31:49,090 --> 01:31:45,620
pleasure I mean you've got a hard copy

2009
01:31:50,530 --> 01:31:49,100
Chris yes I have and I'm reading it at

2010
01:31:54,070 --> 01:31:50,540
the moment it's quite interesting very

2011
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:54,080
very well put together and it's in my

2012
01:31:59,350 --> 01:31:56,960
opinion there's no other person in the

2013
01:32:01,240 --> 01:31:59,360
better position to explain the story of

2014
01:32:03,820 --> 01:32:01,250
the world's most

2015
01:32:05,620 --> 01:32:03,830
hooks so you know if you want to know

2016
01:32:07,810 --> 01:32:05,630
what's going on folks and you want the

2017
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:07,820
truth which is the important part of

2018
01:32:12,070 --> 01:32:09,650
this that that father lettered word

2019
01:32:13,570 --> 01:32:12,080
truth then you really should be reading

2020
01:32:16,090 --> 01:32:13,580
this publication from Phillip whether

2021
01:32:16,959 --> 01:32:16,100
it's on PDF or a hardcopy you need to

2022
01:32:19,450 --> 01:32:16,969
get your hands on it

2023
01:32:22,390 --> 01:32:19,460
because he deals no punchies Spade

2024
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:22,400
basically you know I read of it I mean

2025
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:24,290
you know I've said it before and I'll

2026
01:32:28,270 --> 01:32:25,010
say it again

2027
01:32:31,500 --> 01:32:28,280
I was I was before as conference

2028
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:31,510
organized a press officer and director

2029
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:35,090
investigations and in 1993 we had a

2030
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:38,690
letter from the Merlin group which was

2031
01:32:45,220 --> 01:32:41,210
race until his company and it was his in

2032
01:32:48,939 --> 01:32:45,230
anyway SP father Abell could we assist

2033
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:48,949
in a UFO documentary so I wrote back

2034
01:32:52,630 --> 01:32:50,810
sent him some info would pop letters

2035
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:52,640
went back with him forward in fact I've

2036
01:32:58,090 --> 01:32:54,410
got some of my letters from him I've got

2037
01:33:02,680 --> 01:32:58,100
I think I've got one fax still available

2038
01:33:05,700 --> 01:33:02,690
from 1993 with Ray and it was only later

2039
01:33:09,700 --> 01:33:05,710
on he then went on to say well you know

2040
01:33:12,580 --> 01:33:09,710
I've got film of Roswell so they actors

2041
01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:12,590
show it does have a look yes I can no I

2042
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:14,480
can yes I can knock out I met him in

2043
01:33:20,229 --> 01:33:17,120
London once it's only this story about

2044
01:33:21,910 --> 01:33:20,239
you know they meet in a military

2045
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:21,920
cameraman while he was out in the States

2046
01:33:28,060 --> 01:33:23,690
looking for Elvis footage and he bought

2047
01:33:29,890 --> 01:33:28,070
this film off him and so in the end I

2048
01:33:31,810 --> 01:33:29,900
told him to bugger off Rick basically I

2049
01:33:37,050 --> 01:33:31,820
said I don't believe you

2050
01:33:40,540 --> 01:33:37,060
so in 1995 we were sent a video of

2051
01:33:42,610 --> 01:33:40,550
Roswell the movie made by paul paul

2052
01:33:44,740 --> 01:33:42,620
davids it was just coming out it was

2053
01:33:46,870 --> 01:33:44,750
released by Sony and they sent us a

2054
01:33:49,540 --> 01:33:46,880
review copy again it landed on my desk

2055
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:49,550
and I thought ah I wonder if that's

2056
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:51,530
until the guy who claims to have Roswell

2057
01:33:57,250 --> 01:33:55,130
footage so I found his business card I

2058
01:33:58,870 --> 01:33:57,260
rang him up and they said yeah you don't

2059
01:34:00,280 --> 01:33:58,880
but you don't believe me Philip but I

2060
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:00,290
can't believe me until you show me the

2061
01:34:05,410 --> 01:34:03,290
film so he said ok make an appointment

2062
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:05,420
with my secretary come on down I'll show

2063
01:34:12,189 --> 01:34:09,530
you it so my wife and I we off we went

2064
01:34:14,540 --> 01:34:12,199
to begin with rains office was a

2065
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:14,550
Baulkham Street in inland

2066
01:34:20,089 --> 01:34:18,449
just off the west end and hey presto he

2067
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:20,099
pops a video into the machine and it's

2068
01:34:24,530 --> 01:34:21,570
he showed us a piece of film called the

2069
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:24,540
tent footage it claims this was the the

2070
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:26,489
creature recovered on site in the desert

2071
01:34:30,379 --> 01:34:28,260
and they put it in a tent before they

2072
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:30,389
whipped it off to wherever and there was

2073
01:34:35,870 --> 01:34:32,610
a couple of doctors examining it and so

2074
01:34:37,729 --> 01:34:35,880
on and he gave me a copy of it Chris you

2075
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:37,739
know a video I have got and I still have

2076
01:34:42,879 --> 01:34:40,650
it here today over the next couple of

2077
01:34:47,299 --> 01:34:42,889
months he went on to show us two

2078
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,309
separate and different autopsies one of

2079
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:48,960
which is the one everyone's seen on to

2080
01:34:54,049 --> 01:34:51,570
television or on YouTube or whatever he

2081
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:54,059
then showed us some debris film now when

2082
01:34:59,959 --> 01:34:57,360
I saw the autopsy films I asked her a

2083
01:35:02,089 --> 01:34:59,969
what his intentions were and he said I'm

2084
01:35:04,339 --> 01:35:02,099
gonna put it out on video so you'll be

2085
01:35:06,830 --> 01:35:04,349
able to buy any local video shop you

2086
01:35:09,799 --> 01:35:06,840
know blockbuster or wherever that was at

2087
01:35:12,770 --> 01:35:09,809
the time or direct from him so there was

2088
01:35:14,569 --> 01:35:12,780
no television involved and he asked me

2089
01:35:17,810 --> 01:35:14,579
to work on it and I did

2090
01:35:20,629 --> 01:35:17,820
he made his own little documentary it's

2091
01:35:22,790 --> 01:35:20,639
narrated by Brian Blessed so when if you

2092
01:35:24,830 --> 01:35:22,800
hear it in here Brian Blessed chattering

2093
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:24,840
away those are the words that I wrote I

2094
01:35:30,229 --> 01:35:27,570
lined up cold up here in Hemel Hempstead

2095
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:30,239
to analyze his film various other things

2096
01:35:33,229 --> 01:35:31,770
that he never took any now itself and

2097
01:35:35,299 --> 01:35:33,239
that but that was you know the extent of

2098
01:35:37,790 --> 01:35:35,309
my my dealings as far as that was

2099
01:35:39,919 --> 01:35:37,800
concerned so I just said off the cuff

2100
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:39,929
when I when I first saw it I just

2101
01:35:44,030 --> 01:35:41,730
thought to myself this needs to get out

2102
01:35:45,830 --> 01:35:44,040
into the public so I asked him I said

2103
01:35:47,629 --> 01:35:45,840
would you show it at our conference

2104
01:35:50,359 --> 01:35:47,639
later this year in Sheffield it was all

2105
01:35:53,629 --> 01:35:50,369
organized conferences all done and to my

2106
01:35:57,459 --> 01:35:53,639
surprise he said yes and of course a

2107
01:36:00,620 --> 01:35:57,469
couple of months later David Clarke me

2108
01:36:02,899 --> 01:36:00,630
accidentally you know released it into

2109
01:36:05,450 --> 01:36:02,909
the news media and it just spread like

2110
01:36:08,450 --> 01:36:05,460
wild flower fire

2111
01:36:13,250 --> 01:36:08,460
yeah wildfire and it grew like a massive

2112
01:36:17,089 --> 01:36:13,260
disease you know I was accused of being

2113
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,099
raised until he's accomplished I was

2114
01:36:20,780 --> 01:36:19,199
accused of making on a money they paid

2115
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:20,790
me a small fee to work on his

2116
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:23,130
documentary that's where that came out

2117
01:36:28,290 --> 01:36:26,610
for example I mean Paul was around at

2118
01:36:31,740 --> 01:36:28,300
this time I was having a next

2119
01:36:33,419 --> 01:36:31,750
built on my house and the amount we'll

2120
01:36:35,850 --> 01:36:33,429
get that money from he don't have it

2121
01:36:38,819 --> 01:36:35,860
yeah well at the right I didn't but my

2122
01:36:40,770 --> 01:36:38,829
wife's did she'd had her own property

2123
01:36:43,620 --> 01:36:40,780
before that she'd sold and we used some

2124
01:36:46,020 --> 01:36:43,630
of the money for our extension so it got

2125
01:36:47,700 --> 01:36:46,030
kind of personal so I remember sitting

2126
01:36:50,910 --> 01:36:47,710
having a lunch we said until it one day

2127
01:36:52,799 --> 01:36:50,920
and I just said right count how long it

2128
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:52,809
takes I'll get to the bottom of this one

2129
01:36:56,970 --> 01:36:54,730
day only just smiled and said that's

2130
01:36:59,430 --> 01:36:56,980
okay fill it and we just carried on you

2131
01:37:03,260 --> 01:36:59,440
know I like I say now it's come full

2132
01:37:06,839 --> 01:37:03,270
full circle you know late documents

2133
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:06,849
yeah right guys what I want to do now

2134
01:37:08,850 --> 01:37:08,530
because we've only got about 18 minutes

2135
01:37:14,100 --> 01:37:08,860
left

2136
01:37:15,780 --> 01:37:14,110
and Paul you book the real story where

2137
01:37:19,859 --> 01:37:15,790
can we get it from you can buy it on

2138
01:37:22,979 --> 01:37:19,869
Amazon and paperback or on Kindle and

2139
01:37:26,700 --> 01:37:22,989
they'll also have hard copies with me at

2140
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:26,710
both the weakening conference and the

2141
01:37:31,530 --> 01:37:29,290
absolutist magazine conference in Ponte

2142
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:31,540
glut that's brilliant

2143
01:37:35,459 --> 01:37:34,210
now just before we go away from this

2144
01:37:37,919 --> 01:37:35,469
because I didn't want to talk about the

2145
01:37:40,109 --> 01:37:37,929
awakening err conference you know what

2146
01:37:42,689 --> 01:37:40,119
we're looking forward to before we

2147
01:37:45,689 --> 01:37:42,699
finish I want to just quickly read a

2148
01:37:49,260 --> 01:37:45,699
quote because I do know that your book

2149
01:37:52,339 --> 01:37:49,270
Paul just doesn't cover UFOs you know

2150
01:37:55,890 --> 01:37:52,349
the these UFOs in there ghosts

2151
01:37:59,370 --> 01:37:55,900
spiritualism Leyland's Paul - guys you

2152
01:38:01,520 --> 01:37:59,380
know and even think you've got after

2153
01:38:04,109 --> 01:38:01,530
like you know life after death

2154
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:04,119
experiences in there as well just gonna

2155
01:38:08,370 --> 01:38:06,010
read a quote from a gentleman I've never

2156
01:38:10,890 --> 01:38:08,380
met before I don't know him but it's on

2157
01:38:14,490 --> 01:38:10,900
um on your Amazon page he's selling the

2158
01:38:17,810 --> 01:38:14,500
book Matt Martin gives it five stars out

2159
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:17,820
of five brilliant very well-written

2160
01:38:22,830 --> 01:38:20,290
exploration of the parents gives me

2161
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:22,840
paranormal and he's put this he's a very

2162
01:38:28,049 --> 01:38:25,360
well-written intriguing and engrossing

2163
01:38:30,689 --> 01:38:28,059
exploration of UFOs in the paranormal

2164
01:38:33,540 --> 01:38:30,699
Ally experienced investigator Paul a

2165
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:33,550
scoff uses his own experiences to take

2166
01:38:38,549 --> 01:38:36,489
the reader on a journey of discovery so

2167
01:38:40,350 --> 01:38:38,559
if you're interested in checking that

2168
01:38:41,550 --> 01:38:40,360
journey of discovery folks you really do

2169
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:41,560
need to get your hands

2170
01:38:49,620 --> 01:38:45,130
on a copy of Paul's book now as I

2171
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:49,630
mentioned shorts hamburger myself Philip

2172
01:38:55,170 --> 01:38:52,170
and Paul will actually be having a stall

2173
01:38:57,210 --> 01:38:55,180
at the awakening conference will will be

2174
01:38:59,010 --> 01:38:57,220
there at the awakening conference and I

2175
01:39:01,980 --> 01:38:59,020
just wanted to ask you both who were you

2176
01:39:03,900 --> 01:39:01,990
looking forward to listening speak well

2177
01:39:07,860 --> 01:39:03,910
me personally is our old friend Paul

2178
01:39:10,860 --> 01:39:07,870
Sinclair I mean I've seen Paul speak I

2179
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:10,870
think twice now Chris at your events and

2180
01:39:19,380 --> 01:39:16,690
I found him captivating and Paul reminds

2181
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:19,390
me of you know some good old time

2182
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:21,610
ufology Iqbal for those that don't know

2183
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:24,370
Paul's up on the East Coast not that far

2184
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:27,610
up the coast from you but he's he's

2185
01:39:32,490 --> 01:39:30,730
relaxed he likes the fieldwork just Paul

2186
01:39:35,100 --> 01:39:32,500
and they've had a lot of activity in

2187
01:39:36,420 --> 01:39:35,110
that area and I think the gentleman's

2188
01:39:40,230 --> 01:39:36,430
done a marvelous job he's just got his

2189
01:39:42,060 --> 01:39:40,240
third book out and I was gonna order it

2190
01:39:43,830 --> 01:39:42,070
online and then I realized that Paul was

2191
01:39:45,450 --> 01:39:43,840
a speaker at this event so I'll go along

2192
01:39:47,790 --> 01:39:45,460
and buy one while I'm there and getting

2193
01:39:50,610 --> 01:39:47,800
to sign it even though I've been

2194
01:39:53,670 --> 01:39:50,620
involved for 40 years I still like to

2195
01:39:56,780 --> 01:39:53,680
get a signed copy of people's books and

2196
01:39:59,940 --> 01:39:56,790
add them to my collection so you know

2197
01:40:01,470 --> 01:39:59,950
I'm looking forward to seeing Paul you

2198
01:40:02,630 --> 01:40:01,480
know that he's top of my list let's put

2199
01:40:04,950 --> 01:40:02,640
it that way

2200
01:40:07,830 --> 01:40:04,960
what about you Paul well yeah

2201
01:40:11,070 --> 01:40:07,840
I mean as Philip says is a excellent

2202
01:40:16,820 --> 01:40:11,080
investigator is Paul sink where there's

2203
01:40:20,190 --> 01:40:16,830
some really good work and it's he's his

2204
01:40:22,530 --> 01:40:20,200
subjects that he tackles also just touch

2205
01:40:27,210 --> 01:40:22,540
on the paranormal as well some very odd

2206
01:40:31,130 --> 01:40:27,220
experiences so I mean I'm not saying I

2207
01:40:34,440 --> 01:40:31,140
want to go and see Linda Moulton Howe or

2208
01:40:36,450 --> 01:40:34,450
they'd be Childress particularly Mike

2209
01:40:38,730 --> 01:40:36,460
burrow mmm I don't know

2210
01:40:40,860 --> 01:40:38,740
is this some really good speakers there

2211
01:40:42,510 --> 01:40:40,870
so I think I'll just see what happens on

2212
01:40:46,050 --> 01:40:42,520
the day and see when I'm busy when I'm

2213
01:40:49,350 --> 01:40:46,060
not interesting people are interesting

2214
01:40:52,590 --> 01:40:49,360
views absolutely I'm looking forward to

2215
01:40:54,780 --> 01:40:52,600
catching Paul's talk I understand that

2216
01:40:55,570 --> 01:40:54,790
the talk he's doing it awakening will be

2217
01:40:57,220 --> 01:40:55,580
different to the

2218
01:40:59,500 --> 01:40:57,230
talkies doing the Outer Limits magazine

2219
01:41:02,140 --> 01:40:59,510
conference yeah yeah so that's that's

2220
01:41:04,390 --> 01:41:02,150
good you probably know better than me

2221
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,400
Chris that Paul's done so much research

2222
01:41:11,890 --> 01:41:06,800
it could give a different presentation

2223
01:41:14,050 --> 01:41:11,900
every night of the week you know that we

2224
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:14,060
said right at the beginning one of the

2225
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:15,770
things I always look forward to these

2226
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:17,330
events mean it with old friends we

2227
01:41:21,330 --> 01:41:18,800
haven't seen from Eric you know a few

2228
01:41:24,340 --> 01:41:21,340
years some people we've sort of known on

2229
01:41:27,820 --> 01:41:24,350
social media or email but have never

2230
01:41:30,310 --> 01:41:27,830
actually met or actually coming along so

2231
01:41:30,940 --> 01:41:30,320
and I've said all along you come and say

2232
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:30,950
hello I know

2233
01:41:37,690 --> 01:41:33,440
for example chasing Gleaves he's gonna

2234
01:41:39,610 --> 01:41:37,700
be there and got a new book out from

2235
01:41:41,650 --> 01:41:39,620
planned Express just get a little plug

2236
01:41:45,670 --> 01:41:41,660
in there the UFO you follow gee umbrella

2237
01:41:47,260 --> 01:41:45,680
literally just out so Paul sorry Jason

2238
01:41:50,590 --> 01:41:47,270
will be there and I think he may be

2239
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:50,600
selling copies of his books but that's

2240
01:42:01,990 --> 01:41:52,730
all down to me because I've ordered them

2241
01:42:05,500 --> 01:42:02,000
and the other arrived yet so Friday so

2242
01:42:07,150 --> 01:42:05,510
you know that's always the the nice

2243
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:07,160
thing about these events and not be the

2244
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:09,530
same at the Outer Limits

2245
01:42:14,500 --> 01:42:11,930
conference in Pontefract meeting old

2246
01:42:16,510 --> 01:42:14,510
friends meeting new ones you know that

2247
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:16,520
have trekked halfway around the country

2248
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:19,610
to get there to see you so yeah that's

2249
01:42:25,450 --> 01:42:22,370
that's top of my list yeah well I do

2250
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:25,460
want to also if possible I don't want to

2251
01:42:31,660 --> 01:42:30,050
listen to Richard Dorland yeah I just

2252
01:42:33,010 --> 01:42:31,670
want to know what he's got to say I was

2253
01:42:36,100 --> 01:42:33,020
gonna dig himself out of a hole

2254
01:42:37,870 --> 01:42:36,110
basically you know because then it's

2255
01:42:40,630 --> 01:42:37,880
gonna be interesting the information is

2256
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:40,640
going to give out you know regarding you

2257
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:43,370
know the the Santilli footage basically

2258
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:45,650
in the alleged you know yes it was the

2259
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:48,650
same conversation you know that a kid

2260
01:42:55,420 --> 01:42:51,710
green so let's see what yes yeah and as

2261
01:42:58,120 --> 01:42:55,430
you know gentlemen I collect this UFO

2262
01:42:59,650 --> 01:42:58,130
stuff both box memorabilia so I'm

2263
01:43:02,320 --> 01:42:59,660
looking forward to buying some of that

2264
01:43:04,510 --> 01:43:02,330
while I'm there as well so and we've got

2265
01:43:07,630 --> 01:43:04,520
a stem so come and buy some books from

2266
01:43:09,070 --> 01:43:07,640
me and Paul and sign up for Outer Limits

2267
01:43:09,490 --> 01:43:09,080
magazine shall we're not sure I'm gonna

2268
01:43:13,210 --> 01:43:09,500
give that

2269
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:13,220
to look as well yeah well I'm also

2270
01:43:17,290 --> 01:43:14,930
selling conference tickets for the are

2271
01:43:19,570 --> 01:43:17,300
limits magazine confidence as well 17th

2272
01:43:21,940 --> 01:43:19,580
of August Pontefract town hall it's a

2273
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:21,950
Saturday doors open at 10 o'clock fair

2274
01:43:26,530 --> 01:43:24,410
speakers up at 10:30 and that's me folks

2275
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:26,540
so you're gonna want to get there for 12

2276
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:32,090
o'clock just a little aside to what we

2277
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:33,890
were saying earlier Chris where you said

2278
01:43:39,850 --> 01:43:37,970
you gave that quote off my book where

2279
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:39,860
some you put find out all five styles on

2280
01:43:45,490 --> 01:43:43,370
Amazon the guy's a guy called mark and

2281
01:43:48,940 --> 01:43:45,500
I've known him for quite a few years and

2282
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:48,950
he was also a paranormal investigator so

2283
01:43:52,180 --> 01:43:51,050
I was quite pleased that he said oh if

2284
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:52,190
you've written a book called I'll buy

2285
01:43:56,680 --> 01:43:54,170
him and then when he did that I was

2286
01:43:58,600 --> 01:43:56,690
quite humbled really but I thought at

2287
01:44:01,540 --> 01:43:58,610
least a little bit investigator yeah

2288
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:01,550
Matt did a lot of work on the London

2289
01:44:06,730 --> 01:44:04,730
daylight's hmm you know Derbyshire

2290
01:44:09,850 --> 01:44:06,740
things like that some very bizarre

2291
01:44:11,140 --> 01:44:09,860
stories from over there is it long

2292
01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:11,150
DoneDeal the place where they

2293
01:44:15,430 --> 01:44:13,450
occasionally see a World War two

2294
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:15,440
Lancaster bomber fly yeah and it flies

2295
01:44:20,710 --> 01:44:19,130
down into lady Bauer reservoir because

2296
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:20,720
that's where the dam Busters trained

2297
01:44:26,970 --> 01:44:23,210
yeah that's career philipson yeah yeah

2298
01:44:30,930 --> 01:44:26,980
yes we live in a strange world really

2299
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:30,940
just right sorry Chris

2300
01:44:36,790 --> 01:44:33,770
what throughout my book I've got several

2301
01:44:38,890 --> 01:44:36,800
quotes different ends and beginnings of

2302
01:44:40,180 --> 01:44:38,900
chapters and places and one of the

2303
01:44:42,790 --> 01:44:40,190
things that I think is quite pertinent

2304
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:42,800
to the conversation we've just had was

2305
01:44:48,700 --> 01:44:46,130
quilt from Buddha that says believe that

2306
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:48,710
nothing no matter where you read it or

2307
01:44:52,780 --> 01:44:50,810
who said it and it doesn't matter if I

2308
01:44:55,480 --> 01:44:52,790
have said it and you don't believe it

2309
01:44:59,830 --> 01:44:55,490
unless it agrees with your own reason

2310
01:45:01,870 --> 01:44:59,840
and your own common sense well do you

2311
01:45:04,140 --> 01:45:01,880
know what I actually think that's a

2312
01:45:07,570 --> 01:45:04,150
brilliant place to end the conversation

2313
01:45:09,940 --> 01:45:07,580
so what I'm going to say is Paul a Scott

2314
01:45:12,850 --> 01:45:09,950
thank you very very much for joining us

2315
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:12,860
today on inside outer limits radio sure

2316
01:45:17,590 --> 01:45:15,290
and I'm looking forward to seeing you at

2317
01:45:19,570 --> 01:45:17,600
the weekend and and I'm sure Phillip I'd

2318
01:45:22,120 --> 01:45:19,580
like to say yeah great thank you very

2319
01:45:23,050 --> 01:45:22,130
much Paul and what we'll see you

2320
01:45:25,150 --> 01:45:23,060
saturday

2321
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:25,160
yeah thank you both very much for having

2322
01:45:29,820 --> 01:45:27,770
me and you're very well have a good

2323
01:45:32,650 --> 01:45:29,830
weekend

2324
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:32,660
inside Outer Limits is a regular feature